tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post8115284335170268795..comments2024-03-16T05:00:38.826-04:00Comments on Egnorance: "Those bandits in white coats gave up too quickly because they wanted an organ donor,"mregnorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-44139802665067397062012-10-26T11:00:42.178-04:002012-10-26T11:00:42.178-04:00As I noted, I share your concerns. There are indee...As I noted, I share your concerns. There are indeed bad things happening. <br /><br />That said, I've been doing this for 30 years, and have declared many hundreds of people brain dead, many of whom went on to be donors. I should note that the ABSENCE of sedation is a prerequisite for declaration of brain death.<br /><br />I have never seen a "brain dead" patient "wake up".<br /><br />Most doctors I know are quite concientious about this, and very careful. There have been many lives saved by this process, and I believe it is ethical and good to donate under these circumstances.<br /><br />But as you accuratedly note there are nasty things happening, like the incidents that show up in the press, and there is a small but influential subset of people in the transplant community who are pushing for loosening of standards. <br /><br />It is indeed scary, and needs to be fought.But I know the process as it is practiced very well, and it is generally meticulously ethical. mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-5103661143199039442012-10-26T10:43:57.108-04:002012-10-26T10:43:57.108-04:00"Brain dead" scheduled-to-be-organ-harve..."Brain dead" scheduled-to-be-organ-harvested persons wake up all the time (<a href="http://iliocentrism.blogspot.com/2009/11/bioethics-and-houben-case.html" rel="nofollow">I reference a couple of incidents in this post</a>). That's why the "doctors" have taken to sedating the "corpses".Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-18239685158338140152012-10-26T08:33:35.635-04:002012-10-26T08:33:35.635-04:00I share your concerns. As ordinary donation is don...I share your concerns. As ordinary donation is done now, it is ethical, and does save many lives. <br /><br />I don't think it will end well, either. If ethical physicians who are concerned about the future withdraw from the process, it will get evil for sure, and much sooner. mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-10139461014071522732012-10-26T02:00:03.490-04:002012-10-26T02:00:03.490-04:00"Organ donation is a wonderful thing and has ..."<i>Organ donation is a wonderful thing and has saved countless lives, but organs may only be harvested from dead people and with consent. I have participated in this process hundreds of times, and we are very careful to make sure the diagnosis of brain death is accurate and that the family is fully informed of the situation so that they can make an informed decision.</i>"<br /><br />I hope you will begin to reconsider your participation in Big Organ, for the organ procurement industry cannot fail to be immoral.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-75495934534320226482012-10-26T01:52:03.242-04:002012-10-26T01:52:03.242-04:00"But we made a mistake underway and made the ..."<i>But we made a mistake underway and made the family believe that their daughter and sister would die.</i>"<br /><br />Their mistake is that they forgot to sedate "the body" to keep "it" from waking up and ruining the harvest.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-55715688447401746812012-10-24T16:38:42.556-04:002012-10-24T16:38:42.556-04:00JQ, you can never be entirely sure. You have to we...JQ, you can never be entirely sure. You have to weigh the odds. But if my child were born without a brain I wouldn't hesitate to have it killed. troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05136662027396943138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-7437738926067185142012-10-24T16:13:44.874-04:002012-10-24T16:13:44.874-04:00Troy, you see my point. No one's asking you to...Troy, you see my point. No one's asking you to diagnose yourself. I'm saying that if you kill someone on the advice of a doctor (who should know better, via the Hippocratic Oath), you may never find out that he was wrong. And doctors can be wrong. This case proves it. There are many others just like it, including one in my family. <br /><br />Killing babies, as they do in Holland, is still killing babies. Born babies, I mean, because unborn babies are killed all over the globe. The argument that they were just going to die anyway falls flat. First, it's still killing, second, no doctor can say that with certainty. Any doctor who does is a quack.<br /><br />JQAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-32882085616581559232012-10-24T16:02:30.792-04:002012-10-24T16:02:30.792-04:00Oh, I don't trust medical doctors very much at...Oh, I don't trust medical doctors very much at all. On several occasions I had diagnosed myself correctly (by Google and applying some common sense), only to be contradicted by the MD who proscribed the wrong medication and had to admit later that I was right from the get go. So I would always ask for multiple opinions before making up my mind.troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05136662027396943138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-71057644875115845592012-10-24T15:41:24.488-04:002012-10-24T15:41:24.488-04:00Sounds like my mother. For some people, killing is...Sounds like my mother. For some people, killing isn't really killing when they can justify it to themselves by saying that the person was going to die anyway. (Surprise...every human being is going to die anyway, at some undetermined point in the future.) They say that the doctors told them the person was going to die, and so it must be true. As if doctors can't be wrong. <br /><br />Killing is killing. If you kill your mother because you think she'll never recover, then she really won't ever recover and you'll think that you were supposedly right. You'll never find out that your mother had thirty more years left to live. Give your relative a chance to beat the odds. <br /><br />That one's for you, Troy. The one who's so quick to kill infants on the word of a doctor.<br /><br />JQAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com