tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post8201989563439113184..comments2024-03-16T05:00:38.826-04:00Comments on Egnorance: Note to Jerry Coyne: near death experiences are a hell of a lot more common than origin of speciesmregnorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-45850656565597863592012-10-11T22:04:22.011-04:002012-10-11T22:04:22.011-04:00Michael,
You're still an idiot. I don't ...Michael,<br /><br />You're still an idiot. I don't accept your puerile definitions of evolutionary biology or Big Bang cosmology.<br /><br />All scientific theories are provisional, until disproved. You don't have anything to replace two of the most successful and best supported scientific theories of all time, and you don't like them because of your personal incredulity.<br /><br />You don't have anything plausible to replace them.<br /><br />My point stands. Tens of millions of NDEs (assuming that the number is correct) don't make it true. Crappy evidence repeated 10 million times is still crappy.<br /><br />There might be fewer accounts of alien abduction, but the evidence is better. The individuals at least weren't undergoing a life threatening experience with cerebral hypoxia. And it's at least plausible; with 10^22 stars in the visible universe, there must be other ETIs somewhere else in the universe.<br /><br />If you accept the crappy evidence of NDEs, why don't you accept the much 'better' evidence of alien abductions? And if not, why not?<br /><br />That said, I don't believe in alien abductions. I don't even believe ETIs are visiting the Earth.bachfiendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752055891882312204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-11450889761366166972012-10-11T20:27:44.060-04:002012-10-11T20:27:44.060-04:00"You are an idiot. Extraordinary claims requi..."<i>You are an idiot. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.</i>"<br /><br />Only an idiot -- or an intellectually dishonest person -- would assert that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." When someone makes that assertion, all he's really saying is that "there is no conceivable evidence that I will acknowledge as being evidence,"<br /><br />"<i>"Everything came from nothing" and "survival of survivors explains life" are extraordinary claims, that you accept with credulous equanimity.</i>"<br /><br />DarwinDefenders and 'atheists' are nothing if not credulous; they cultivate their personal credulity.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-55883389864794640692012-10-11T19:35:43.803-04:002012-10-11T19:35:43.803-04:00"Everything came from nothing" and "..."Everything came from nothing" and "survival of survivors explains life" are extraordinary claims, that you accept with credulous equanimity.<br /><br />I'll put more stock in the intensely personal experiences of tens of millions of people around the world. mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-51523790340392633742012-10-11T19:11:47.564-04:002012-10-11T19:11:47.564-04:00Michael,
You are an idiot. Extraordinary claims ...Michael,<br /><br />You are an idiot. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. No matter how many cases of crappy NDEs you can cite, they still provide no evidence. I don't accept visiting ETIs because there's no evidence for it. If Alexender found a fossil representing a transition between a 'fish' and a 'reptile' in his backyard, I wouldn't accept it immediately either, suspecting that it must be a fraud or forgery - fossils to be significant have to be in the right sedimentary rock of the right age in the right place.bachfiendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752055891882312204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-53677175261205653872012-10-11T07:43:11.262-04:002012-10-11T07:43:11.262-04:00Regarding ET, it's you atheists who believe th...Regarding ET, it's you atheists who believe that. Devout Christians are the least likely to believe such things; atheists are the most likely. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html)<br /><br />But heck, if you believe in Darwinism, you'll believe in anything. mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-61344125070819800062012-10-11T07:40:48.453-04:002012-10-11T07:40:48.453-04:00If Alexander found something in his backyard that...If Alexander found something in his backyard that looked like a fossil intermediate between a fish and a reptile, it would be hailed as dramatic proof of evolution. <br /><br />Yet millions of people have remarkable experiences during coma or clinical death, and you insist we ignore the evidence. <br /><br />The body of near-death experiences is massive and detailed. It certainly represents a mixture of causes-- but it is perfectly reasonable to propose that some of the events represent actual experience of afterlife. <br /><br />Why not approach it with an open mind?<br />mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-1032316077834383652012-10-10T23:41:49.660-04:002012-10-10T23:41:49.660-04:00Michael,
No. The simplest explanation is that th...Michael,<br /><br />No. The simplest explanation is that the memories came from the clouded convalescent period not from the coma. If you're arguing that patients have out of body experiences or near death experiences during surgery, then why is it so extremely rare considering the hundreds of thousands of patients who have a general anesthetic every day?<br /><br />Such experiences are due either to inadequate anesthesia during a GA or reversible brain damage.<br /><br />Perception and memory are fallible. Even at the best of times, people don't perceive everything that's going on around them, ignoring and also adding details. And whenever a memory is retrieved, it's edited with details confabulated to make the memory seem real. So memories become progressively more inaccurate.<br /><br />The clue is that Alexender states that he thought about his experience for months. I'd be more impressed if the doctors and nurses caring for him had reported that when he came out of the coma, he promptly started babbling about his experiences. But there isn't. They almost certainly thought his recovery was unremarkable.<br /><br />The report is similar to the accounts given by people claiming to have been abducted by extraterrestrials. False memories, very real to the person with them, but absolutely bogus.<br /><br />Or are you going to be batshit crazy and also claim that the accounts of alien abduction means that ETIs are visiting us too?bachfiendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752055891882312204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-61997575221430282202012-10-10T13:03:08.506-04:002012-10-10T13:03:08.506-04:00So you have this Agitated Neuron Theory that "...So you have this Agitated Neuron Theory that "posits" that "agitated" (is that a technical term?) neurons hallucinate. Did I get that right? And that is your "simple" explanation. Right?<br /><br />What, exactly, "agitates" neurons? Neuroagitatiamine? Loonytunitol?<br /><br />It's good that you post anonymously. When you get to college, you'll be embarrassed by all this. Unless, of course, you plan to major in Womyn's Studies or some other equally weighty discipline. George Boggsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-57085576741730400332012-10-10T12:44:58.593-04:002012-10-10T12:44:58.593-04:00Answer: You're full of shit.
Ah, so the simpl...<i>Answer: You're full of shit.</i><br /><br />Ah, so the <i>simplest</i> answer is to posit an entirely unseen reality that exists following death, as opposed to positing that agitated neurons are hallucinating under conditions that are extreme enough to nearly cause them to die?<br /><br />I think that there is someone here full of shit, and I think that would be you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-53411252407261646682012-10-10T12:35:30.587-04:002012-10-10T12:35:30.587-04:00"Mind reading is so 19th Century."
The ..."<i>Mind reading is so 19th Century.</i>"<br /><br />The world will be ever so much better when we finally get over the 19th Century, and epecially when we finally get over the hold-out pseudo-science of the 19th Century.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-43581521207682463402012-10-10T12:30:37.881-04:002012-10-10T12:30:37.881-04:00"ThiBut I now understand that such a [reducti..."<i>ThiBut I now understand that such a [reductionist materialistic] view is far too simple. The plain fact is that the materialist picture of the body and brain as the producers, rather than the vehicles, of human consciousness is doomed. In its place a new view of mind and body will emerge, and in fact is emerging already. This view is scientific and spiritual in equal measure and will value what the greatest scientists of history themselves always valued above all: truth.</i>"<br /><br />Considering that "modern science" as currently practiced -- at any rate since the positivists and logical positivists redefined to be the image of materialistic atheism -- isn't at all about <i>truth</i>, such a change would of necessity be both deep and wide.Ilíonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15339406092961816142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-33919018986988199762012-10-10T12:11:26.322-04:002012-10-10T12:11:26.322-04:00"BF Skinner is rolling over in his grave.&quo..."BF Skinner is rolling over in his grave."<br /><br />More proof of the afterlife!mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-6288119626971633022012-10-10T12:00:09.252-04:002012-10-10T12:00:09.252-04:00Since you're into remote mind reading, guess w...Since you're into remote mind reading, guess what I'm thinking right now....<br /><br />Ding!<br /><br />Answer: You're full of shit. <br /><br />And that's an observable state.<br /><br />By the way, I loved Coyne's notion of "conditioned dreams". BF Skinner is rolling over in his grave.George Boggsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-30192010994064001052012-10-10T11:20:28.227-04:002012-10-10T11:20:28.227-04:00If a rare or non-existent example of speciation is...<i>If a rare or non-existent example of speciation is evidence for Darwin's theory, why aren't tens of millions of NDE's evidence for the afterlife?</i><br /><br />Because you seem to be forgetting what the "N" in "NDE" stands for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-66057428728910194882012-10-10T10:41:21.509-04:002012-10-10T10:41:21.509-04:00I did read Coyne's book. My nervous system can...I did read Coyne's book. My nervous system can't take it again.<br /><br />My point is humorous but obvious:<br /><br />If a rare or non-existent example of speciation is evidence for Darwin's theory, why aren't tens of millions of NDE's evidence for the afterlife?mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-71349704332924079712012-10-10T10:29:57.247-04:002012-10-10T10:29:57.247-04:00OK, I read your reference and I concede your point...OK, I read your reference and I concede your point and withdraw my skepticism about the number of self-reported NDE's.<br /><br />Now, do me the same courtesy. Read Coyne's book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-1205576014962646372012-10-10T10:04:16.837-04:002012-10-10T10:04:16.837-04:00Well, Dr Egnor, it seems most of the commenters di...Well, Dr Egnor, it seems most of the commenters did not read the article in newsweek. Being Coyne fan boys they immediately rail against this man. I guess they do not understand the function of the cortex or why their silly suggestions are impossible. Instead they argue the validity of Darwinian thought with a tenured Neurosurgeon (two actually) on a post about NDE's. <br />Maybe these studies linking functional 'autism' with atheism are correct? But then these guys probably have the T-shirt. You know the one, Doctor? The one where man evolves into a fat nerd hunched over a computer screen from a gibbon or chimp or some such modern ape or monkey. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-7077582354351578592012-10-10T09:07:27.250-04:002012-10-10T09:07:27.250-04:00The simplest explanation-- the simplest scientific...<i>The simplest explanation-- the simplest scientific explanation-- is that it was real</i><br /><br />Actually, the <i>simplest</i> scientific explanation is that it was a hallucination. No need to imagine an invisible supernatural world to get to that conclusion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-58890918303150850952012-10-10T08:05:30.973-04:002012-10-10T08:05:30.973-04:00" Alexander had a long dream, one conditioned..." Alexander had a long dream, one conditioned by his religious upbringing (he describes himself “as a faithful Christian”). Isn’t that more parsimonious?"<br /><br />It would be, if parsimonious meant "post hoc fantasizing about someone else's subjective and non-observable experience". Odd position to take for a scientist, IMO. Fits right in with "You couldn't possibly feel that way."<br /><br />Mind reading is so 19th Century.George Boggsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-55910408676410061002012-10-10T07:30:22.515-04:002012-10-10T07:30:22.515-04:00[Let's see some evidence for this claim.]
htt...[Let's see some evidence for this claim.]<br /><br />http://near-death.com/faq.html<br /><br />[Read Coyne's book. New species arise routinely, and have been observed.]<br /><br />Do name them.mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-36078026686048823152012-10-10T07:16:23.981-04:002012-10-10T07:16:23.981-04:00Ah, the pathological liar strikes again.
Tens of ...Ah, the pathological liar strikes again.<br /><br /><i>Tens of millions of people have had such experiences</i><br /><br />Let's see some evidence for this claim.<br /><br /><i>which is tens of millions of more times than we've seen origin of species, which is never</i><br /><br />Read Coyne's book. New species arise routinely, and have been observed.<br /><br />But a pathological liar can never admit he is wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com