tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post283571910586264669..comments2024-03-16T05:00:38.826-04:00Comments on Egnorance: The Alliance Defense Fund on censoring prayermregnorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-62136007929893523482012-12-10T15:35:36.416-05:002012-12-10T15:35:36.416-05:00After all, they lived in a day when the Lord's...<i>After all, they lived in a day when the Lord's Prayer was said at the beginning of each class and congress.</i><br /><br />Except they didn't. They had a Chaplain and sometimes had a morning prayer, but it wasn't the Lord's Prayer. Nor was it uncontroversial - several founders including James Madison opposed the idea on the grounds that it violated the Establishment Clause. And the practice has been challenged many times, one of the significant challenges was in the 1850s. Pretending that this was some sort of accepted and hallowed practice against this backdrop is engaging in fantasy.<br /><br />There was a proposal put forward in the first session of the Constitutional Convention to open its sessions with prayer, but it was tabled and never voted upon because it was deemed too controversial. It was never raised again.<br /><br />Prior to the adoption of the U.S. Constitution, the Continental Congress sometimes opened its sessions with prayer, but at least one Chaplain resigned due to the controversy that this caused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-87040529476998118822012-12-10T06:33:58.821-05:002012-12-10T06:33:58.821-05:00Don't lump yourself in with them KW, you don&#...<i>Don't lump yourself in with them KW, you don't have the BALLS to be so confrontational off line. We both know that. </i><br /><br />Typical cwusader. When he's been destroyed in his argument he resorts to threats of violence. Some Christian!<br /><br />Go plan with your widdle guns, cwusader, and leave the discussion to grownups.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-31117646000570429702012-12-09T21:41:11.824-05:002012-12-09T21:41:11.824-05:00KW,
"God you are an idiot."
Hey! Watch i...KW,<br />"God you are an idiot."<br />Hey! Watch it. You're discriminating against atheists by invoking God's name. <br /> <br />"There is no such clause, I just explained the difference between “public” and “public” and it apparently flew right over your head"<br />Actually, it was rather a pathetic attempt at trying to split hairs and I completely disregarded it for the sophomoric trash it was. Public means PAID for by the tax coffers of the public. Park, town-hall, or school - no difference - so long as participation is VOLUNTARY. <br /><br />"I’ll try again."<br />Don't bother. Your explanation is as useless as scrotum on a grown man's hip. <br /><br />"You would be whistling a different tune if public meetings started with a lecture on the foolishness of Christianity, which neither establishes a church, nor keeps you from worshipping as you see fit, but is a repeated government condemnation of your religious beliefs, and as such, is not allowed. "<br />You are truly a nerd with layered persecution complexes! Saying a prayer is not condemning you or your materialist pals. Your analogy is false. <br /><br />"I don’t know about Canada, but in our country, the constitution largely prevents the majority from using the government to force their religion on minorities"<br /><br />Canada is world famous for religious suppression. <br />Our Christian charter is known worldwide as a fascistic totalitarian means to oppress religious minorities - especially atheists. We have camps for them.<br /><br />"That way, only the atheists are discriminated against. "<br />Poor souls...er...sorry...I mean bags of meat. <br /><br />"Unfortunately for you, as atheists become a larger more vocal segment of society you can expect them to reject the status quo."<br />A waking wet dream? Wow. <br />The more vocal these anti-theist, intolerant idiots get the more resistance they will meet. But you're getting close whistling now. Whistling Dixie, that is. <br />BTW, <br />Don't lump yourself in with them KW, you don't have the BALLS to be so confrontational off line. We both know that. <br />Now off you go to play with your rod, technician.<br />Leave the conversation to the grown ups. <br />Dismissed. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-73102336478305237132012-12-09T19:36:57.068-05:002012-12-09T19:36:57.068-05:00Where is the clause that bans voluntary worship in...Where is the clause that bans voluntary worship in a public space?<br /><br />God you are an idiot. There is no such clause, I just explained the difference between “public” and “public” and it apparently flew right over your head. <br /><br />I’ll try again. Any individual or group can worship wherever and whenever they want. What you can’t do is use the auspices of government to promote your religion. I can decline your invitation to join you for prayers in the park, but I, and my elected representatives, should not be required to participate in religious observance as the price of admission for participating in government.<br /><br />You would be whistling a different tune if public meetings started with a lecture on the foolishness of Christianity, which neither establishes a church, nor keeps you from worshipping as you see fit, but is a repeated government condemnation of your religious beliefs, and as such, is not allowed. <br /><br />I don’t know about Canada, but in our country, the constitution largely prevents the majority from using the government to force their religion on minorities, hence the wishy-washy acceptance of prayer to an ambiguous god, verses a specific reference to a particular god, in this case Jesus. That way, only the atheists are discriminated against. Unfortunately for you, as atheists become a larger more vocal segment of society you can expect them to reject the status quo.<br /><br />-KWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-70351142037592987842012-12-09T18:36:19.410-05:002012-12-09T18:36:19.410-05:00"Congress shall make no law respecting an est..."Congress shall make <b>no law respecting an establishment of religion</b>, or <b>prohibiting the free exercise thereof</b>; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or <b>the right of the people peaceably to assemble</b>, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." [emph added]<br /><br />Where has congress demanded public prayer of a certain religion? <br />Where is the clause that bans voluntary worship in a public space?<br />I understand you don't believe in God Anon - but do you believe in literacy?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-57554933623821503782012-12-09T18:05:12.424-05:002012-12-09T18:05:12.424-05:00You are completely nuts, Michael.You are completely nuts, Michael.Future Muslim from Pyongyangnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-75795419546663259552012-12-09T17:46:14.307-05:002012-12-09T17:46:14.307-05:00When you ask questions like that, you proclaim &qu...When you ask questions like that, you proclaim "I am an idiot" proudly to all.<br /><br />People who are not idiots read the First Amendment, and the jurisprudence of the last 200 years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-63282240046363976882012-12-09T17:44:38.531-05:002012-12-09T17:44:38.531-05:00Clear evidence that Egnor is a secret Muslim, whic...Clear evidence that Egnor is a secret Muslim, which is something I've said all along.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-74364408302513253052012-12-09T17:27:00.285-05:002012-12-09T17:27:00.285-05:00Judging by the level of conditioning, I would gues...Judging by the level of conditioning, I would guess somewhere over the rainbow. <br />I think the personality we're talking to (Anon mk iv?) is probably the tin man, although there is is some definite bleeding in from the scarecrow. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-64809393691857065692012-12-09T17:16:39.590-05:002012-12-09T17:16:39.590-05:00I'm actually surprised by this answer, mregnor...I'm actually surprised by this answer, mregnor. I was expecting something about Russia.<br /><br />Anyway, it's funny how you think that if people don't share your delusions, then they automatically live in a dictatorship. My country has never been communist, try again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-4588461181588781292012-12-09T17:07:16.318-05:002012-12-09T17:07:16.318-05:00Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, ba...<i>Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit</i><br />Matthew 28:19<br /><br />Have you been baptized Troy?<br />Pépéhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00896283600100217146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-34586917229845555552012-12-09T16:07:55.798-05:002012-12-09T16:07:55.798-05:00And what is the Constitutional basis for outlawing...And what is the Constitutional basis for outlawing reference to God in civic speech?mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-40607198590586970692012-12-09T16:06:31.881-05:002012-12-09T16:06:31.881-05:00How's the weather in Pyongyang?How's the weather in Pyongyang?mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-49115014462931871902012-12-09T15:59:31.018-05:002012-12-09T15:59:31.018-05:00Conservatives seem to be willfully ignorant to the...Conservatives seem to be willfully ignorant to the fact that the word “public” has multiple meanings. When Crusader says “There is nothing in the US constitution that prevents public prayers.”, well, that is only true for certain meanings of the word “public”, like “for everyone to see” or even “maintained for or used by the people or community”. When it comes to public prayers as part of a government function different rules apply. The courts allow it on a limited basis if the government sponsored prayer meets certain criteria, which leads to the inevitable arguments about who gets to say what prayer when. I say lets avoid the controversy, and stop trying to use the government to advance personal religious beliefs. <br /><br />Pray all you want; stand at the back of the room and mumble to your invisible friend all night for all I care. Just stop being spoiled children and insisting you have some sort of right for a turn at the mike to spout your religious nonsense, thus sparing us from the sad spectacle of your pretending to communicate with the creator of the universe.<br /><br />Perhaps I would be more tolerant if there where also a right that would allow me to repeatedly heckle government sponsored prayers without being ejected from the proceedings, and to continue to have my presence and participation encouraged.<br /><br />-KWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-49323822501667178762012-12-09T13:06:06.596-05:002012-12-09T13:06:06.596-05:00Not that I am Satan, mind you.Not that I am Satan, mind you.troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05136662027396943138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-22034303148265401382012-12-09T13:02:49.778-05:002012-12-09T13:02:49.778-05:00I don't have a dog in this unique US squabble,...I don't have a dog in this unique US squabble, but didn't the alleged Jesus Christ allegedly say something along the lines of<br /><br /><i>"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."</i><br /><br />Looks like you're headed for the lake of fire, Egnor. On the bright side, we might finally have a chance to meet in person.troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05136662027396943138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-11466356106371456152012-12-09T11:54:09.076-05:002012-12-09T11:54:09.076-05:00Anon,
Apparently you seem to think you have a bet...Anon, <br />Apparently you seem to think you have a better grasp of it than the authors of the constitution did. After all, they lived in a day when the Lord's Prayer was said at the beginning of each class and congress. <br />Many of them LED that prayer. <br />The establishment clause was included to counter sectarianism - not promote eliminative materialism. <br />Get your post modern rose coloured glasses of and READ the bloody thing. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-39673125996289321442012-12-09T11:48:43.829-05:002012-12-09T11:48:43.829-05:00There is nothing in the US constitution that preve...There is nothing in the US constitution that prevents public prayers. Nothing. There is, however, quite a fundamental point about PROTECTING the right to worship. <br />People can pray and express their faith wherever an when ever they want in a free country. <br />Keep up the GOOD fight, Dr Egnor. You're on the side of liberty and God, that's quite clear. <br />You're spot on the mark both morally and legally. <br />This kind of effort (as in above post) is exactly the kind of counter measure that is required. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-54888522132688111132012-12-09T10:29:45.964-05:002012-12-09T10:29:45.964-05:00@Boggs: He has a better grasp of U.S. Constitution...@Boggs: He has a better grasp of U.S. Constitutional law than Egnor has. Or you have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-437576788660954962012-12-09T09:17:02.084-05:002012-12-09T09:17:02.084-05:00Johann, please...
Aren't there enough cirrhot...Johann, please...<br /><br />Aren't there enough cirrhotic livers in Australia to keep you occupied and off the byways of the internet making inane comments about American constitutional law and the US federal court system?George Boggsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-12885236528071122612012-12-09T09:03:26.093-05:002012-12-09T09:03:26.093-05:00Shorter Anonymous: "Look at me, look at me!&q...Shorter Anonymous: "Look at me, look at me!"Knownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-1332989509921526312012-12-09T07:36:29.135-05:002012-12-09T07:36:29.135-05:00"...suppress religion was Communism..."
..."...suppress religion was Communism..."<br /><br />Tell that to Richard Dawkins and other New-Atheists!<br />Pépéhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00896283600100217146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-55981186680170289452012-12-09T07:06:35.677-05:002012-12-09T07:06:35.677-05:00Also, it's 'yeoman' not 'yoeman...Also, it's 'yeoman' not 'yoeman'. And what are these 'govenment' officials? Have you been imbibing the booze a bit much today?bachfiendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752055891882312204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-54259089066340227322012-12-09T06:59:47.878-05:002012-12-09T06:59:47.878-05:00Well, the courts are only upholding the law. If y...Well, the courts are only upholding the law. If you want to pray before a publicly funded meeting, then do it in church beforehand or do it silently, privately.<br /><br />If the churches want to demonstrate that there's a general freedom of prayer, why don't they invite people of other faiths to give an invocation before their services?<br /><br />I'm still trying to work out what you mean by '(athiest) ideology'. The only ideology I'm aware of that attempted to suppress religion was Communism, but obviously you don't mean that.bachfiendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752055891882312204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-15156692912468208792012-12-09T06:52:10.242-05:002012-12-09T06:52:10.242-05:00Shorter Egnor: "Look, there are other religi...Shorter Egnor: "Look, there are other religious nutters who agree with my misinterpretation of the separation of church and state!"<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com