tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post2996786568607779939..comments2024-03-16T05:00:38.826-04:00Comments on Egnorance: "Bake me a cake, boy"mregnorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-59854833415265525012014-03-04T06:23:17.307-05:002014-03-04T06:23:17.307-05:00"If I can boycott Sears, why can't they d..."If I can boycott Sears, why can't they decline to serve annoying compressor owners?"<br /><br />They can decline to serve individuals. They can't decline to serve a class of people. <br /><br />http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-service<br /><br />"And it is the aggrieved and cake deprived gay couple who brought the lawsuit."<br /><br />This is the Masterpiece Cakes case, I think. Here's a summary of what they did:<br /><br />https://www.aclu.org/blog/religion-belief-lgbt-rights/wedding-cake-fido-fluffy-not-dave-charlie<br /><br />Here's what the mother of one of the grooms had to say:<br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deborah-munn/it-was-never-about-the-ca_b_4414472.html<br /><br />Look ... at first, a group of right wing religious leaders insisted that they would be forced under threat of lawsuit to marry gay couples. It was clear the law said no such thing already, but extra clauses were added in an attempt to accommodate them.<br /><br />With their balloon popped, they had to find some other grievance to rally the troops - and this was the idea that religious business owners should be allowed to discriminate. Now, they're smart enough to know that 'discrimination' sounds terrible, so they just rebranded it as 'religious liberty'.<br /><br />And, yes, there are people who think that business owners should be allowed to discriminate. But for decades, the law has been very clear on this: no, you can't. You have to serve the disabled. You can't stick up 'No Jews', 'No Coloreds', 'No Catholics' signs. Or 'No Gays' signs. If you want to operate a business, you have to operate within the law, and the law says that you can't discriminate. <br /><br /><br />Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-49088451131829022502014-03-03T14:23:13.339-05:002014-03-03T14:23:13.339-05:00"Another shop lost a lot of business when the..."Another shop lost a lot of business when they refused to serve a gay couple. They weren't fined, prosecuted or shot by Obamatroopers from the black helicopters. People just decided to stop going to such a nasty place." <br /><br />This, Jem, is the proper remedy, if remedy is needed. No lawyers, no courts, just social judgement.<br /><br />I agree with you that it is a 'silly place', as Graham Chapman's 'Arthur' said of 'Camelot'. And it is the aggrieved and cake deprived 'gay' couple who brought the lawsuit.<br /><br />I support the right of a shopkeeper to exclude from service anyone he wishes to exclude, for whatever arbitrary reason he cites. Just as I reserve the right to boycott any shopkeeper for any reason whatever. Hell, I refused to shop at Sears for ten years because of the endless runaround I got trying to find an air compressor part. If I can boycott Sears, why can't they decline to serve annoying compressor owners? Yeah, the government says they have to. And I think the government is arrogating to itself power which it should not exercise.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05652227699197953483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-67703425364286399142014-03-02T18:58:52.799-05:002014-03-02T18:58:52.799-05:00"We are talking here about militant homosexua..."We are talking here about militant homosexuals doing the second thing, which is to involve the proprietor in their moral failings."<br /><br />So 'militant homosexuals' have actually done that? They've gone into a shop and asked for an Auschwitz cake? And there's been some change in the law that forces bakers to do that on pain of ... what? <br /><br />No.<br /><br />First of all, this hasn't happened, even a little bit.<br /><br />There have been exactly two actual examples of cake shop owners discriminating against gay couples. <br /><br />One shop refused to serve a cake to a gay couple saying that his religious beliefs meant he took the definition of marriage very seriously. One of the gay guys then phoned up again and said he was arranging a dog wedding and needed a cake, and the owner said 'no problem'. No legal sanctions on anything there, no one went to jail or got fined, we just had a wry laugh at the raw evil and hypocrisy some Christians are capable of. <br /><br />Your nasty brand of religion is dying because we can laugh at you. You're ... silly. <br /><br />Another shop lost a lot of business when they refused to serve a gay couple. They weren't fined, prosecuted or shot by Obamatroopers from the black helicopters. People just decided to stop going to such a nasty place. <br /><br />Now, unless your proposal is that people should be forced to go to shops run by bigots, you've got nothing. <br /><br />Which law, by the way, do you think forces bakers to bake Auschwitz cakes? And what's the punishment if they refuse? The name of the actual law, please. Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-47046950331859926912014-03-02T17:03:57.919-05:002014-03-02T17:03:57.919-05:00Jem, I have a problem with people thinking they ha...Jem, I have a problem with people thinking they have the right to compel others to participate in their moral failings. Just buying a cake off the shelf is one thing. Making the owner decorate the cake with 'Happy Birthday KKK - Down with Negroes, Catholics and Jews' is quite another thing. Why are you seemingly incapable of distinguishing between them?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05652227699197953483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-75600346897828930272014-02-28T10:19:04.810-05:002014-02-28T10:19:04.810-05:00You don't endorse someone's opinions by se...You don't endorse someone's opinions by serving them in a shop, though.<br /><br />Do you think someone who owns a gas station should be allowed to refuse service if he thinks his customer is going to use that gas to drive to a gay wedding?<br /><br />How many degrees of separation do there have to be? Should Shell have the right to insist that none of their franchisees sell gay couples gas? <br />Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-58160284628377454872014-02-28T10:10:50.296-05:002014-02-28T10:10:50.296-05:00"How about this, Jem. Would you support the r..."How about this, Jem. Would you support the right of the local Baptist Church to meet for Wednesday night Prayer Meeting at the local 'gay' bar?"<br /><br />Yes. 100%, absolutely. They should be treated like any other patron. And protected like any other patron. If people harass them there, the police should be called and it would be those harassing them guilty of an offense. <br /><br />"And how about forcing a black cake baker to bake a cake celebrating the founding of the KKK? You good with that?"<br /><br />I've answered this. Again, 100% - the baker should treat his customers equally. The baker should be required to sell a paying customer a cake; the baker is not required to violate his rights to free speech. There's tons of legal precedent that maps out the contours of where free speech ends and obligation to follow the law starts.<br /><br />Like so many things, it's a conflicting rights issue. And like so many things, the people crying 'persecution' are the ones demanding a set of additional rights and exemptions that wouldn't apply to the rest of us. <br /><br />And, where the Christian fanatics have gained power, they don't set about creating an environment where everyone can live in harmony, they've attempted to force everyone's kids to pray in schools, learn about Noah's Ark in biology classes and to recriminalize sodomy. It would be a lot more convincing that this was about human rights if we hadn't had a couple of decades of attempted theocracy and lurch to the right so profound that *Jan Brewer* now counts as a 'leftist' to such people.<br /><br />Your attempt at turnabout shows this. Are you really saying that the problem with race relations in this country is black people refusing to ice cakes for the KKK? And not, for example, that there's still a KKK? <br />Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-78157988083626082172014-02-27T22:39:40.016-05:002014-02-27T22:39:40.016-05:00I've been thinking of the tax issue as it appl...I've been thinking of the tax issue as it applies to a church group. Am I correct in assuming that the church would be taxed as if it were a for-profit corporation? If that is the case, then would any taxes be due if the church were run at a loss, year after year after year?Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05652227699197953483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-11719912266539514582014-02-27T18:30:09.735-05:002014-02-27T18:30:09.735-05:00Hello Jem.
I'm going to bed.
Without question...Hello Jem.<br /><br />I'm going to bed.<br />Without question I will certainly not repeat any incorrect recollections. I do not tell lies.<br /><br />I'll try to post here tomorrow after a little research. If not the weekend.<br /><br />RegardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-60818014823574354392014-02-27T17:47:41.169-05:002014-02-27T17:47:41.169-05:00"I would be interested in your response to th..."I would be interested in your response to the above"<br /><br />That it sounds so deeply implausible that if there's even a kernel of truth to it, there are clearly important elements of this story missing. <br /><br />OK ... found it.<br /><br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2041504/Police-tell-cafe-owner-Stop-showing-Bible-DVDs-arrest-you.html<br /><br />The Christian Institute (a loony evangelical pressure group with a history of lying and nonsense see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Institute) told the Daily Mail (the British equivalent of Fox News) that a cafe owner had been warned by the police that someone had complained. <br /><br />No mention of the sexuality of the police officers involved.<br /><br />Here's a report from an actual news organization:<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15072408<br /><br />No arrest, no charges, no prosecution, there was a quick apology from the police. So your 'it went to Court, the prosecution won' is a lie.<br /><br />The 'current situation' is that there are some nutjob extremist right wing Christians intent on seeing jackboots and persecution where absolutely nothing whatsoever exists.<br /><br />Now that you know there was no court case and prosecution, do you pledge not to repeat the lie that there was? <br />Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-25602981486156202902014-02-27T15:42:07.299-05:002014-02-27T15:42:07.299-05:00Further, the real issue is NOT actually sexual per...Further, the real issue is NOT actually sexual perversion.<br />If they were not deploying homosexuality then they would deploy something else.<br /><br />The actual agenda needs to be spelt out loud & clear and decent homosexuals will be able to join us and say....<br /><br />....ahem...clears throat....<br /><br />THE OBJECT OF THE CAMPAIGN IS TO CALL <br />DAY NIGHT...OR BLACK WHITE...TO INVERSE LOGIC AND UNDERMINE REALITY....AS WITH WINSTON SMITH...IF YOU CAN SAY 2+2=5 THEN YOU....cough cough...THEN YOU CAN SAY HOMOSEXUALITY IS 'NORMAL'....see?<br />So in essence THEY ARE ATTEMPTING TO MAKE YOU INTERNALISE A FORM OF <br />MADNESS....act...oh...hold on.....ACTUALLY WE LOVE THE HOMOSEXUALS AND THEY ACTUALLY HATE THEM AND USE THEM AS THE HATE AND USE ALL HUMAN BEINGS....<br /><br /><br />There.<br />Now I need a drink of water........<br /><br /><br />John Richardson.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-63829889450986937932014-02-27T15:31:41.641-05:002014-02-27T15:31:41.641-05:00'Jem'
Above you write.....
'The pol...'Jem' <br /><br />Above you write.....<br /><br />'The police, I'm afraid, are wasting their time with things that exist in the world, not just in your mind.' <br /><br />I'm afraid that you are wrong.<br />A few years ago a lesbian Policewoman went into a café here in England.<br />She was on duty & in uniform.<br />She heard The Holy Bible playing quietly in the background. The owner was a Christian & had played the CD for years in his café.<br />She ARRESTED the café owner, closed the café and confiscated the CD as, as she later explained, it was potentially '..offensive in this day and age...' and she was protecting the general public from potential offense as she was aware of certain 'offensive' passages in The Holy Bible.<br />It went to Court.<br />She...er...The Prosecution, won.<br />This was years ago.<br /><br />google the above terms and see for yourself.<br /> <br />Lots of people have failed to notice what has happened it once 'civilised' countries.<br /><br />I would be interested in your response to the above as it seems from your post that you sincerely do not appreciate what the current situation actually is.<br /><br />Regards.<br /><br /><br />John R.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-71988654355520827802014-02-26T22:27:24.681-05:002014-02-26T22:27:24.681-05:00Amen to the thread.
The real agenda is to make Nor...Amen to the thread.<br />The real agenda is to make North Americans MORALLY consent to the gay identity as normal as opposed to a historic immoral and contempt conclusion.<br />Its not about cakes and marriage.<br />Once pre marital sex was opposed by a solid majority and not only by a tiny minority. thats what they want regarding homosexuality.<br />A collective moral change from rejection to acceptance.<br />They demand moral consent from a majority or everyone in most of common civic discourse .<br />The answer is NO and NEVER. Homosexuality is immoral and contemptible in all its ugliness wITHOUT being a reflection on the gay person themselves. one should and can segregate on this.<br />We can get along as fellow countrymen but not agree on such a important issue of identity, morality, Christianity, humanity.<br />I speak for many silent people in Canada and America.Robert Byershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05631863870635096770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-72801144187552711412014-02-26T22:00:24.532-05:002014-02-26T22:00:24.532-05:00"I would like some liberal to explain to me w..."I would like some liberal to explain to me what it does apply to"<br /><br />Do you understand what an established religion is? OK. It's a safeguard against that. What it means is that no branch of the American government can impose one set of religious beliefs on everyone. That there is no state religion, that, to coin a phrase, the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion and so it is not the job of government to force anyone to kow-tow to the whims and prejudices of a subset of a subset of Christianity. Or any other religion. What's to stop children at public schools being forced to pray to Mecca every morning? The First Amendment. <br /><br />The - hilariously named - 'cake wars' are about Christian extremists who want the government to exempt them from a law that applies them to everyone else because they think Christians are special magic little snowflakes who should decide which laws apply to them, and which minorities they can discriminate against. <br /> Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-61118106522021180812014-02-26T21:44:21.080-05:002014-02-26T21:44:21.080-05:00She, by the way.
'Jem: "how would you t...She, by the way. <br /><br />'Jem: "how would you test blah blah"<br /><br />Typical proglodyte rabbit trail: get caught lying, change the subject. :-) '<br /><br />Thanks for your answer, very instructive. Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-30906647745917966672014-02-26T19:48:16.013-05:002014-02-26T19:48:16.013-05:00Well, Ben, you're a generous guy. Personally, ...Well, Ben, you're a generous guy. Personally, I don't think Jem is ignorant. He apparently agrees. So he sure as hell was lying. <br /><br />Jem: "how would you test blah blah"<br /><br />Typical proglodyte rabbit trail: get caught lying, change the subject. :-) Adm. G Boggs, Glenbeckistan Navynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-71678768417918421602014-02-26T19:26:54.818-05:002014-02-26T19:26:54.818-05:00"At the same time, the righteous parties in t..."At the same time, the righteous parties in the cake wars"<br /><br />Does it not worry you, as Christians, that with all the poverty and injustice and sickness in the world that you're spending all this time and effort fighting 'cake wars'? <br /><br />Gay people exist, some of them want to formalize a monogamous commitment to each other. They don't need the Pope to bless them or to force you to buy them something from the registry. Is the greatest injustice in the world really that they'd like to pay someone to bake them a cake? Is that really the battlefield where you want to dash your religion against the rocks? People are leaving your lot in droves because ... well, you're making fools of yourselves. <br /><br />I mean, I don't care. The world won't be free until the last stone from the last cathedral falls on the last priest, and all that. But I presume *you* don't want that to happen. I presume the plan isn't to appear this silly and irrelevant. <br /><br />Stop fighting cake wars, start washing feet. Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-5171699086524173902014-02-26T19:15:41.197-05:002014-02-26T19:15:41.197-05:00"A eucharist wafer is just that, a wafer. Dur..."A eucharist wafer is just that, a wafer. During the mass the priest turns the wafer into the body of Christ."<br /><br />Sigh. Yes, I know the story you tell yourselves.<br /><br />As a matter of interest, how would you test whether a wafer's been consecrated or not? Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-61180538995140391422014-02-26T19:10:33.935-05:002014-02-26T19:10:33.935-05:00"These laws presumably apply to everyone. The..."These laws presumably apply to everyone. The day some Muslim says that he's not complying with them, what are you going to do?"<br /><br />This may seem like a radical suggestion, but 'treat that person equally under the law'. So, yes, treat them as you would treat anyone else.<br /> <br />Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-37141362125635361082014-02-26T19:06:36.840-05:002014-02-26T19:06:36.840-05:00Jem's problem is not that he's lying, It&#...Jem's problem is not that he's lying, It's that he's ignorant. He doesn't know what the word "consecrated" means. There are eucharist wafers for sale on Amazon, I checked, but they are of course not consecrated. <br /><br />Let me help you out, Jem. A eucharist wafer is just that, a wafer. During the mass the priest turns the wafer into the body of Christ. That's called consecration. After consecration, the Eucharist is much more than a wafer. <br /><br />It appears that we now have an addition to our anti-Christian bigot family.<br /><br />BenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-34918077288786649312014-02-26T18:57:22.768-05:002014-02-26T18:57:22.768-05:00If you prefer gays saying “leave us alone” over “...If you prefer gays saying “leave us alone” over “bake us a cake”, you might enjoy a visit to Russia or Uganda.<br /><br />-KWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-84490652898432585842014-02-26T18:53:13.327-05:002014-02-26T18:53:13.327-05:00We've had same-sex marriage in my state since ...We've had same-sex marriage in my state since 2004 and it's a nightmare. They now think they need to teach young children about homosexual relationships because, hey, we're got "marriage equality" now. Parents aren't asked to opt in, opt out, or even asked at all. <br /><br />If you look at a homosexual the wrong way in my state you're a criminal. <br /><br />Oh, and the two women who sued the state to recognize their relationship as a "marriage" were divorced shortly thereafter. Funny how that works. <br /><br />Did I mention that the legal foundation that argued their case began life as a pedophile defense fund? <br /><br />TRISHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-24288471592612886082014-02-26T18:48:48.158-05:002014-02-26T18:48:48.158-05:00I'm sure that you perceive of it as anti-gay b...I'm sure that you perceive of it as anti-gay bigotry, KW. You're wrong but that's besides the point. The point is that it's our religion and in this country we have the freedom to practice our religion, even if you don't like it. That's the point of constitutional protections. <br /><br />Are there any parts of the Constitution you actually like? It seems like you just want to violate all of them whenever you feel like it.<br /><br />TRISHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-83405535410105539872014-02-26T18:28:58.535-05:002014-02-26T18:28:58.535-05:00"Link, please. I've investigated your cla..."Link, please. I've investigated your claim and I think you're lying."<br /><br />Did you 'investigate my claim' by typing 'eucharist wafers' into the search bar, or was that beyond you? Jemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359685574788608040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-75691843628819520642014-02-26T18:24:28.800-05:002014-02-26T18:24:28.800-05:00Not "anti-gay bigotry" but disapproval o...Not "anti-gay bigotry" but disapproval of homosexuality, yes. Christianity is crystal clear on that point. Some churches have changed their minds recently, which doesn't mean that Christianity has gray areas on the issue. It means that plenty of churches don't preach Christianity from their pulpits anymore. They've adapted their message to get with the times. The Bible hasn't changed, nor has God. Some churches simply don't care at all what he says.<br /><br />BenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-4921461830920595812014-02-26T18:21:20.451-05:002014-02-26T18:21:20.451-05:00Dude, that was only 13 years ago.
I don't un...Dude, that was only 13 years ago. <br /><br />I don't understand. Surely you aren't suggesting that churches have a right to <i>discriminate?</i> That's like the Jim Crow South! And if you defend it you're no better.<br /><br />Please explain to me why a Catholic priest can discriminate but a Catholic baker cannot. Does one have rights and the other doesn't?<br /><br />Ben Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com