tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post8299985100457770963..comments2024-03-16T05:00:38.826-04:00Comments on Egnorance: My reply to Doug Indeap on the constitutional "separation of church and state"; Part 3mregnorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-89906845954324473482012-12-29T16:02:49.489-05:002012-12-29T16:02:49.489-05:00Could someone please advise me on how I may contac...Could someone please advise me on how I may contact Doug Indeap. Thank You.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-89582037204649227142012-01-15T13:45:07.560-05:002012-01-15T13:45:07.560-05:00@Doug:
[For at least as far as can reasonably be ...@Doug:<br /><br />[For at least as far as can reasonably be foreseen (say a couple generations), I see the risk somewhere near that of the proverbial snowball.]<br /><br />Certainly the risk of Sharia law applied broadly is low, although selected application is always a risk.<br /><br />And the risk of Christian theocracy arising from a manger scene or a voluntary school prayer is minimal as well, which hasn't stopped you from draconian legal measures to "prevent" it.mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-43775504198129270132012-01-15T11:13:11.790-05:002012-01-15T11:13:11.790-05:00crusadeREX,
Okay. You and I assess the risk of a...crusadeREX,<br /><br />Okay. You and I assess the risk of a legislature or electorate in a state enacting sharia quite differently. For at least as far as can reasonably be foreseen (say a couple generations), I see the risk somewhere near that of the proverbial snowball.<br /><br />In any event, let's say your assessment is right and there is some possibility of this in the near future. How is is that you think a law such as considered in Colorado would "deal with this issue now"? If a legislature or electorate in the future wants to enact sharia, a law passed today cannot and will not stop them; they will have the power simply to repeal or amend it.Doug Indeaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16049465653137283724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-1208502786861003572012-01-13T09:43:23.508-05:002012-01-13T09:43:23.508-05:00"We establish no religion in this country. We...<i>"We establish no religion in this country. We command no worship. We mandate no belief, nor will we ever. Church and state are and must remain separate." -Ronald Reagan, 1984</i><br /><br />That Ronald Reagan sure was an anti-Christian Klansman, wasn't he?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-28309811557416165322012-01-12T22:00:04.258-05:002012-01-12T22:00:04.258-05:00So who is misinformed? Myself, the media, Westmins...<i>So who is misinformed? Myself, the media, Westminster, and the Sharia Council?</i><br /><br />Your link doesn't go to an article that concerns Sharia law at all. Did you really think no one would click on it? Or are you just too stubbornly stupid to admit you got this wrong? There is no Sharia law in the UK. People can agree to have their cases arbitrated under Sharia law, but that's an entirely different thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-74579593860456499332012-01-12T17:45:45.243-05:002012-01-12T17:45:45.243-05:00I did not know the Oklahomans were 'douchebags...I did not know the Oklahomans were 'douchebags'. <br />I thought they were American citizens.... weird.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-49748622290279491252012-01-12T17:43:29.645-05:002012-01-12T17:43:29.645-05:00"I know you know this - you're a smart gu..."I know you know this - you're a smart guy - you're just doing a little chest-beating. Ok, we heard you... let's move on."<br /><br />Thanks. I appreciate your recognition, RickK(thud! thud!)<br />I will concede your point regarding the laws in place. But this is why I object to a subset. <br />Perhaps it could have been worded in a way that did not specifically TARGET Islamic law but still provided the legal framework to pre-empt any attempts at establishing parallel legal systems? <br />What do you think of that, RickK?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-47374577689549690332012-01-12T17:36:12.466-05:002012-01-12T17:36:12.466-05:00Many of the new atheist set seem solely interested...Many of the new atheist set seem solely interested in attacking Christianity. Men like Hitchens being the exception (equal opportunity attacker!) <br />In truth, I think it is cowardice, Mike.<br />We see the same in politics. <br />I think they KNOW how the Islamic world would respond, and so they 'slap the cheek that turns away'. <br />That said, some of the old school apathetics seem quite aware of their privileged status in the west and are content to be quietly smug in their omnipotence.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-26693142963796317062012-01-12T17:29:42.878-05:002012-01-12T17:29:42.878-05:00Mulder,
"Wait. I'm an atheist, and i sup...Mulder, <br />"Wait. I'm an atheist, and i support Sharia law?"<br />I, for one, am glad you do not.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-79175898754364747022012-01-12T17:26:30.741-05:002012-01-12T17:26:30.741-05:00"As usual, you are sadly misinformed."
H..."As usual, you are sadly misinformed."<br />Hmmm. The first link in a google shows this article "<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196165/Britain-85-sharia-courts-The-astonishing-spread-Islamic-justice-closed-doors.html/" rel="nofollow">Britain has 85 sharia courts: The astonishing spread of the Islamic justice behind closed doors</a>". <br />That was 2009. Apparently and according to the <a href="http://www.islamic-sharia.org/" rel="nofollow">Sharia Council of The United Kingdom</a> there are more to come. <br />So who is misinformed? Myself, the media, Westminster, and the Sharia Council? <br />Or you?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-51810132008590586842012-01-12T14:13:35.018-05:002012-01-12T14:13:35.018-05:00Egnor: "I agree with you. Isn't it bizarr...Egnor: "I agree with you. Isn't it bizarre that atheists will go to federal court to remove a plastic baby Jesus from a public lawn, but they support actual Sharia law-- law explicitly based on a religion-- in the US.<br /><br />Atheists just hate Christianity."<br /><br /><br />Wait. I'm an atheist, and i support Sharia law?<br /><br />When did i ever say that? Why am i getting lumped into some form of generalization and unfounded bias?<br /><br />Oh. Right, that's BIGOTRY.Mulderhttp://muldonia.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-26487080498655070162012-01-12T12:02:01.091-05:002012-01-12T12:02:01.091-05:00Several states now have ('civil') Sharia c...<i>Several states now have ('civil') Sharia courts, no? The UK?</i><br /><br />No, the UK does not have Sharia courts. As usual, you are sadly misinformed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-62092126602651852482012-01-12T11:00:54.554-05:002012-01-12T11:00:54.554-05:00Doug,
You state: "I can’t image a legislatur...Doug,<br /><br />You state: "I can’t image a legislature enacting sharia, can you?"<br />That is a failure of your imagination, and perhaps indicative of an insulated academic life. It could be you simply do not understand the limits of your own expertise. A bit of a monist?<br />My position is one born of practical experience. <br />I have been to nations, once fairly democratic and progressive that are now governed by these kangaroo courts. Pakistan is but one example. In the 70's-90's Pakistan was an off the path trekking destination, and a favourite for people like myself. Try that now without air support. <br />Look, my position is based on eye witness experience. I have SEEN the results of Sharia tribunals. I have seen the victims of these laws. I have also witnessed the slow creep of that culture into the hearts of western civilization. Several states now have ('civil') Sharia courts, no? The UK? <br />I am not hysterical, nor am I frightened. I am a soldier who sees a brewing civil conflict on the horizon <br />Perhaps you prefer to ignore these issues and leave them for your grandchildren to deal with. Not I. <br />People like me feel there is a need to deal with this issue now. <br />It is not simply 'anti-Muslim'. No offence to you or any Atheist, but I would MUCH rather have Muslims about than Atheists (and that having fought their fringe) so far as morality and depth of philosophy goes... <br />This is not about religion or religious rights to me.<br />It is about integration. <br />ONE LAW FOR ALL. <br />I hope that gives you a better insight into the reality that people like myself live with. <br /><br />PS> Love the nic!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-22504305059926946152012-01-12T11:00:16.235-05:002012-01-12T11:00:16.235-05:00RickK,
Your argument is fatuous.
The Levites are ...RickK,<br />Your argument is fatuous. <br />The Levites are not emigrating to Oklahoma in record numbers. The Levites are not demanding exemption from taxes and interest. The Levites are not asking for their own divorce courts. The Levites do not want the state to pay for prayer rooms and footbaths. The Levites are not modern day proponents of child marriages. The Levites are a clan of the Hebrews. How many modern Jews (Levi) do you know who want Levitical law imposed or introduced? I think the most famous Levite in the USA started a denim pants company with a fellow called Strauss. <br />The only way you have to worry about Leviticus is if you are smelting a golden calf to worship at the foot of Mount Sinai...oooh 3500-4000 years back? <br />Shariah Law on the other hand is real, modern, and in common practice. I have seen the immolated, decapitated, and pummeled victims of that law FIRST HAND in theatre. <br />The next step will be to set up Sharia courts as they have in some of the States near us. Thankfully our province banned Sharia courts (2009?) and our Federal Gov't does not interfere with Provincial decisions in this way....usually. <br />RickK, You are comparing apples and neutron bombs. The oranges would be a welcome break. <br />I strongly suggest you re visit this issue with a little less anti-Christian bias. This decision is TOTALLY inconsistent and could very well lead to serious blowback.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-82758912755007240672012-01-12T10:57:42.280-05:002012-01-12T10:57:42.280-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-13497128654062424222012-01-12T10:34:05.481-05:002012-01-12T10:34:05.481-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-38644735377822252962012-01-12T00:45:07.031-05:002012-01-12T00:45:07.031-05:00mregnor,
While the asides about sharia are just t...mregnor,<br /><br />While the asides about sharia are just that, I'll add my two cents. The hullabaloo about the supposed threat of sharia overtaking the law of the United States and the several states is SHEER UNFOUNDED HYPE. Those working themselves into a lather about this need to take a deep breath, relax, and then inform themselves–after which they can sigh in relief and affirm, “Nevermind!”<br /><br />First, the courts apply federal and state law, not sharia. I can’t image a legislature enacting sharia, can you? I thought not, so no worries on that score.<br /><br />Second, in certain instances (which are rare), IF parties to a contract agree that a dispute between them about the contract should be resolved according to sharia, then the court–applying longstanding federal and state law–may implement the parties’ contract in keeping with their expressed intent and resolve their dispute according to sharia UNLESS–again applying longstanding federal and state law–the court finds that doing so in the circumstances of the case would conflict with fundamental rights or principles of federal or state law. The courts have long done the same sort of thing with contracts in which parties agree to resolve their disputes by the laws of one state rather than another, or by Jewish law, or Catholic church law, or . . . you get the picture. Continuing to implement the law of contracts in this manner poses NO RISK that sharia will overrun the nation and somehow govern your next appearance in court. Chill.<br /><br />That said, as much of what you say in this post with respect to separation of church and state plows old ground, ignores or, worse, distorts much of what I've said in my comments on earlier posts, and indulges in rhetorical flourish that goes beyond "snarky" and, indeed, dishonestly dodges much of what I've said (and you're smart enough to know when you're doing so), I see little of use coming from further comment and find the prospect of trying further discussion tiresome and pointless. Satisfied that anyone who bothers to read through our past posts and comments will readily "get it," I am happy to leave things as they are. I appreciate your passion for your point of view, even as I regard it baseless, and wish you well.Doug Indeaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16049465653137283724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-4609812689813097022012-01-11T23:19:45.748-05:002012-01-11T23:19:45.748-05:00Oh look, Jessica Ahlquist won her case, as everyon...Oh look, Jessica Ahlquist won her case, as everyone with even the slightest knowledge about Constitutional law predicted she would.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-45607420579375782132012-01-11T20:26:39.084-05:002012-01-11T20:26:39.084-05:00@KW:
Thank you for making your hate of Christiani...@KW:<br /><br />Thank you for making your hate of Christianity so clear (as if it weren't already). <br /><br />You strip every vestige of Christianity from civic life based on fake interpretations of the Constitution, but you have no problem with actual enactment of Sharia law in the US.mregnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431770851694587832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-66412866785003437792012-01-11T17:57:48.376-05:002012-01-11T17:57:48.376-05:00Crus,
Nobody has tried to use Sharia law in Oklah...Crus,<br /><br />Nobody has tried to use Sharia law in Oklahoma. The measure to ban the use of Sharia was a silly, symbolic, anti-Muslim gesture. Besides, it would only have been possible to consider Sharia law in a case where no other law applies. And we have laws against indentured servitude, child brides, polygamy, etc. <br /><br />So it's completely consistent to keep a meaningless law off the books, especially a law specifically designed to single out a specific religion for legal discrimination. <br /><br />The Old Testament is full of polygamy and slavery. Would you support a law banning consideration of the Old Testament in a case where no other legal precedent exists? It's the same thing. <br /><br />I know you know this - you're a smart guy - you're just doing a little chest-beating. Ok, we heard you... let's move on.RickKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-15941441879254381812012-01-11T11:00:47.984-05:002012-01-11T11:00:47.984-05:00Read an article in the newsfeed today that reports...Read an article in the newsfeed today that reports the US supreme court has shot down an Anti-Sharia law in Oklahoma. <br />So...no voluntary prayers or benedictions at highschool graduations - but Sharia law as a subset of legislation is fine. Everything from indentured servitude, to finances, tom polygamy, to child brides. to mandatory footbaths...okay. <br />Mention Christ? Not okay. <br />Real consistent, Uncle Sam.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14739783974158130525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-86638529120469728182012-01-11T08:19:27.655-05:002012-01-11T08:19:27.655-05:00Ah yes. KKK members like James Madison. Who oppose...Ah yes. KKK members like James Madison. Who opposed government-paid chaplains in Congress and in the military on First Amendment grounds. Who rejected a proposed census because it involved counting people by profession and the government to count the clergy, in his opinion, would violate the First Amendment.<br /><br />Madison, one of the chief architects of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, also opposed government-issued prayer proclamations. He issued a few during the War of 1812 at the insistence of Congress but later concluded that his actions had been unconstitutional. He vetoed legislation granting federal land to a church and a plan to have a church in Washington care for the poor through a largely symbolic charter. In both cases, he cited the First Amendment.<br /><br />Yes. The idea of separation of church and state is clearly the creation of time-travelling KKK members who went back and made Madison and Jefferson advocate for them decades before the organization was founded.<br /><br />Egnor, you're a clown. Your arguments concerning the First Amendment would get you flunked in a first year law school class.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3555199390227912207.post-59896815548459330832012-01-11T08:11:10.687-05:002012-01-11T08:11:10.687-05:00Where in the Constitution are judges empowered to ...<i>Where in the Constitution are judges empowered to censor civic religious expression?</i><br /><br />Article III. Dimwit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com