Tuesday, October 18, 2011

Take one prayer down, we put a thousand up

The Cranston High School prayer:



Atheists assert that this innocuous prayer on the wall of a Rhode Island High School for 50 years without controversy is unconstitutional and thus in violation of federal law. It is currently the object of a federal court suit.


From the Providence Journal:


Update: Judge sees Cranston school prayer for himself

6:00 PM Thu, Oct 13, 2011 | Permalink
News staff Email



By JOHN HILL
Journal staff writer

PROVIDENCE, RI -- Lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union and the Cranston School Committee were in federal court this afternoon, debating the constitutionality of a school prayer painted on the auditorium wall of Cranston High School West.

It's barely even a prayer. The only religious references at all are "Our Heavenly Father" and "Amen". Te rest is civic boilerplate.

It is much less religious than "God bless America", which the President says every time he opens his mouth, and Presidential proclamations for Thanksgiving and a National Day of Prayer. It is less religious than "... Endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights..." and "... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom... , which are in every history textbook in the school, and countless prayers and invocations of God on national monuments, in political speeches, etc, etc.


No one in his right mind believes that these prayers are unconstitutional.

The hearing was delayed for about an hour, when U.S. District Judge Ronald R. Lagueux announced he wanted go to the school and see the prayer for himself. During his visit, he examined it close up, and sat in multiple seats in the auditorium, looking over at it.

What a farce. The judge should order a psychiatric examination on the atheists who brought this suit.

He also toured the school lobby, which has several banners hanging from the ceiling exhorting students to achieve.

A federal judge walks through a building deciding what people are allowed to say and not allowed to say. That's the atheist version of the First Amendment.

Lynette Labinger, the ACLU lawyer representing high school junior Jessica Ahlquist, said the painting was an unconstitutional state endorsement of a religious prayer. The statement was titled "School Prayer," she said, it begins with "Our Heavenly Father" and ends with "Amen."

"This is government speech," she told Lagueux. "This is a government prayer."

The Constitution restricts religion in only one way: "Congress shall make no law respecting an Establishment of religion". Nothing about "government speech" or "government prayer". The men who ratified the Constitution spoke publicly about religion and prayer a lot, and all government officials since have done so as well.

The Constitution only prohibits legislation establishing an official National Church, like the Church of England.

The Constitution also guarantees free exercise of religion and freedom of speech. Something that the ACLU brownshirts are fanatically trying to extinguish.

But Joseph V. Cavanagh, the Cranston School Committee's lawyer, said the mural, written and put up in the high school auditorium in the early 1960s, was essentially a secular call to students to do well and be good citizens with some religious references common to the time it was written.

"It's not in your face," Cavanagh said. "It's not forced on anyone."
It's not forced on anyone.


Oh, perhaps I was unclear. Let me rephrase it: 

It's not forced on anyone.

Perhaps I was insufficiently precise. What I meant was:

It's not forced on anyone.

Only the atheists are using force.
Jessica Ahlquist, a 16-year-old junior at the school, argues that the prayer, which has been on display at the school for 50 years, violates the First Amendment.

Ya' know, the Amendment that guarantees freedom of speech.

The Rhode Island Affiliate of the American Civil Liberties Union filed the suit on Ahlquist's behalf in April, alleging the prayer makes Ahlquist feel "excluded, ostracized and devalued as a member of the school community" because she does not share the religious beliefs on display. Ahlquist is an atheist.
She doesn't share the civic beliefs on display either. The only way little Fraulein Atheist won't feel "excluded, ostracized and devalued" is if people can only say stuff she agrees with.

Ahlquist's lawyers are seeking a court order to force officials to remove the prayer, which they claim violates the First Amendment's establishment clause, which bars the government -- the School Committee -- from promoting religious messages.
It's the Establishment Clause, not the Promoting Religious Messages clause. The prayer ain't a National Church. It's not an Establishment of anything. It's barely even a prayer.

American government officials have been 'promoting religious messages' for more than two centuries. Are we a theocracy yet?

One of the earliest soul-crushing religious messages was:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are Created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
That's the one that really pisses the atheists off.

In March, the School Committee voted to keep the prayer because it is a historic document created more than 50 years ago -- along with a school creed, school colors and a mascot -- to give the new school an identity and tradition, they say.

The School Committee wants to keep the prayer mural up, arguing the painting of the prayer, a gift from the school's first graduating class in 1963, expresses the givers' intent, not government policy. The committee also challenges whether Ahlquist was genuinely offended by it.

Never delude yourself that atheists have a shred of respect for human rights. Atheism is an assertion of power, against man no less than against God.  Every atheist's concession to moral law is a tactic, not a conviction.

Every atheist government has been a totalitarian hellhole. Atheists are inveterate totalitarians, and we ignore their efforts to silence us at our peril.

The proper response to this naked censorship is to make thousands of copies of the prayer, and let students distribute them all over the school. Kids giving to kids. They can't stop students from doing it. Put the prayer on the walls, on the doors, in the desks, on the floors, in every crevice they can find. Pay a visit to the courthouse and to the ACLU offices. Distribute the prayer everywhere they're trying to silence us.

Take one prayer down, we put a thousand up.


29 comments:

  1. "Take one prayer down, we put a thousand up."

    Yep - what's right for the majority is right for everybody. Mobilize the children. Drive those secularists back into the shadows. Onward Christian Nation!

    You go, Michael.


    Meanwhile, back in reality: Law is determined by statute, precedent and court interpretation. School sponsored prayer is not allowed in public schools. It's a school-sponsored wall. It's a prayer. Game over - move on.

    ReplyDelete
  2. @RickK:

    Law is determined by the People.

    Game's not over. Watch.

    ReplyDelete
  3. "Never delude yourself that atheists have a shred of respect for human rights. Atheism is an assertion of power, against man no less than against God. Every atheist's concession to moral law is a tactic, not a conviction.

    Every atheist government has been a totalitarian hellhole. Atheists are inveterate totalitarians, and we ignore their efforts to silence us at our peril."


    You are insane, deluded and paranoid. This blog has to be a parody. Nobody can be so crazy while being able to operate a keyboard.

    ReplyDelete
  4. So much for those here who said it’s a small prayer in a mural; it is the mural, and it’s Gigantic. It’s much more of a prayer than the obligatory and pandering “God bless America” tacked on to a speech, and it’s forced on everyone who attends the school. Its large size and prominent position convey the message that the school supports monotheistic faith above all others.

    Sure have your little brainwashed Christian children run around like zealots with a copy of this prayer, just don’t expect everyone to support having the government do it for you.

    -KW

    ReplyDelete
  5. Pepe,

    If you don’t like debate and argument perhaps you should restrict your internet activities to those conservative sites that preach to the quire and limit dissenting comments. They are much more in line with your style of short mocking comments without any substance.

    -KW

    ReplyDelete
  6. Feeling excluded, ostracized, and devalued... Welcome to adolescence.

    ReplyDelete
  7. @Pépé
    "Here come the trolls!"

    Are you kidding? Michael Egnor is vomitting everyday articles and comments comparing atheists to totalitarians, mass murderers, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. He's the real troll.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Feeling excluded, ostracized, and devalued...because that’s the way Christians roll.

    -KW

    ReplyDelete
  9. Notice how Dr. Egnor encourages students, not schools, to post additional copies of this prayer. This is a tacit admission of the illegality of schools posting prayers.

    -KW

    ReplyDelete
  10. @anon...
    You are insane, deluded and paranoid.

    @anon...
    ...brainwashed Christian children run around like zealots...

    This is trolling big time!

    ReplyDelete
  11. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Here is a prayer by one of America’s most beautiful voice:

    Oh God-our heavenly Father.
    Oh, God-and my father
    Who is also in heaven.
    May the light of this
    Flickering candle
    Illuminate the night the way
    Your spirit illuminates my soul.

    Papa, can you hear me?
    Papa, can you see me?
    Papa can you find me in the night?
    Papa are you near me?
    Papa, can you hear me?
    Papa, can you help me not be frightened?
    Looking at the skies I seem to see
    A million eyes which ones are yours?
    Where are you now that yesterday
    Has waved goodbye
    And closed its doors?
    The night is so much darker;
    The wind is so much colder;
    The world I see is so much bigger
    Now that I'm alone.
    Papa, please forgive me.
    Try to understand me;
    Papa, don't you know I had no choice?
    Can you hear me praying,
    Anything I'm saying
    Even though the night is filled with voices?
    I remember everything you taught me
    Every book 1've ever read...
    Can all the words in all the books
    Help me to face what lies ahead?
    The trees are so much taller
    And I feel so much smaller;
    The moon is twice as lonely
    And the stars are half as bright...
    Papa, how I love you...
    Papa, how I need you.
    Papa, how I miss you
    Kissing me good night...


    I do hope atheists won’t be suing my beloved Barbara and the Yentl film crew!

    ReplyDelete
  13. @Pépé
    This is not trolling. Michael is deluded and paranoid. He sees darwinist conspiracies and blood-thirsty godless totalitarians everywhere.

    ReplyDelete
  14. @anon...
    Michael is deluded and paranoid. He sees darwinist conspiracies and blood-thirsty godless totalitarians everywhere.

    That's because Dr. Egnor has 20/20 eye sight when looking at the atheist swamp!

    And, contrary to you, he is not hiding behind a stupid moniker...

    What's your real name?

    Coward!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous said...
    " If you don’t like debate and argument perhaps you should restrict your internet activities to those conservative sites that preach to the quire and limit dissenting comments."

    I love this one "preach to the quire"! Feeling obsolete there anon? A little archaic? No wonder. Welcome to atheism.

    "They are much more in line with your style of short mocking comments without any substance."

    Thats all we ever get from these anonymous cowards; mockery, inanities, zero substance.

    The ACLU is a materialist, secular humanist (and thus religious) organization for adolescents in heat that don't want to be told to control themselves.
    I.e. half of the utterly sick American government these days
    ... and the entirety of atheists.

    Liberals. Ya can't live with 'em, ya certainly can't reason with 'em and ya can't pretend they're not stinking up the country.

    Once again anon shows us why its only 99% of atheists that give a horrible reputation to the rest.

    ReplyDelete
  16. @Pépé

    "And, contrary to you, he is not hiding behind a stupid moniker...

    What's your real name?

    Coward!"


    Oh, I assume Pépé is your real name.

    ReplyDelete
  17. @Gary H.

    "The ACLU is a materialist, secular humanist (and thus religious)"

    Let's look up the definition of "secular": "Secularity (adjective form secular) is the state of being separate from religion".

    Let's use it in your sentence: "The ACLU is a materialist, separate from religion humanist (and thus religious)".

    >separate from religion
    >thus religious
    Does not compute.

    ReplyDelete
  18. "Does not compute."
    The most honest response by a materialist I have read on this site.

    The only way he could get more so is to admit:
    "Malfunction! Malfunction!"

    ReplyDelete
  19. @crusadeREX
    Why do you hate Zeus, the one true God?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Anon wrote:
    "You are insane, deluded and paranoid. This blog has to be a parody. Nobody can be so crazy while being able to operate a keyboard."

    This is a response?

    He writes again:
    "Why do you hate Zeus, the one true God?"
    (I like Greek Mythology, actually. Sex too.)
    Again, is this a response?

    ReplyDelete
  21. "(I like Greek Mythology, actually. Sex too.)"

    Too bad, you're going to hell.

    ReplyDelete
  22. "Too bad, you're going to hell."
    Maybe. I have already hiked the perimeter and took part in several operations within the very bowels of hell.
    But you mean my soul, don't you? That I could not tell you. I do repent my sin. I pray that is enough.
    Who are you to Proselytize? Some kid with too much time and genetic material on his hands.
    Learn what hell is before you condemn others to it.

    ReplyDelete
  23. "Oh, I assume Pépé is your real name."
    Pépé is a stable moniker that you can identify with his comments. He does not shift back and forth pretending to be one person and then another.
    Is there so little of you lot left that you need to pretend to be more than one person? Seems so.

    ReplyDelete
  24. More than one personOctober 19, 2011 at 9:29 AM

    "Learn what hell is"
    I know what it is: an imaginary place.

    ReplyDelete
  25. "I know what it is: an imaginary place."
    How I envy your innocence.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Gary H. said: "Thats all we ever get from these anonymous cowards; mockery, inanities, zero substance."

    Then he said: "Liberals. Ya can't live with 'em, ya certainly can't reason with 'em and ya can't pretend they're not stinking up the country."

    So, someone with the oh so personal moniker of "Gary H." considers people who post anonymously to be cowards.

    *chuckle*

    He says all they contribute is mockery with no substance. Then he uses mockery and inanities. And from my survey of his posts, he has NEVER posted an iota of substance - just mockery and insults.

    *laugh out loud*

    Gary, I must thank you for the entertainment.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Well Egnorance, you would do well to read and digest the sentiments expressed on said banner. Ya know be kind and helpful, be honest with yourself and others, smile when you lose....

    ReplyDelete