Torching Catholic banners:
Heckling Christian kids:
Mocking and spitting on kids who were praying the Rosary:
This from a young Christian girl at the celebration:
We had been wandering Madrid all day, chillin
The boys were wearing their kilts so we got stopped for photos many times
One guy who stopped us said there was an anti Catholic protest in Sol so we went to check it out
There was this HUGE crowd of people so Seamus & Louise didn´t want to come check it out with us, they sat at a corner
We went in and people were shouting filthy slurs and cursing the Pope and it was awful
So we knelt down and prayed a Rosary for them in the crowd and got surrounded by angry protesters, shouting and threatening and spitting and filming us and mocking us and trying to burn our flags.
A gay couple came and made out in front of us but whatever
Anyway, Dominic made us stand up because he felt threatened so we finished our Rosary standing but on the last decade, a fight broke out right next to us between the Catholics who had been standing behind us and and the protesters so some of the other Catholics lead us out of the crowd.
We went back and dropped our bags with Louise and this time Mim stayed back so it was just Me & Dominic & Greg & Billy who went back and prayed a second rosary on the side of the crowd and we got more of the same, people getting up in our faces screaming
We were met with a couple more of Juventutem but they left after we finished our second Rosary before one had an emotional breakdown.
Everyone left but the group I just mentioned above and we chanted BENEDICTO, BENEDICTO and VIVA PAPA and waved our Papal flag and so on up against the police line
Lots of people yelled at us still
Then, the police line broke and they charged at us and we had to run for our lives a little more urgently than after our Rosary
Then the riot police came out and beat the ___ out of the protesters
At least one guy lost a WYD pilgrim from his group in the crowd and a lot of medics showed up… A lot of people got lost & hurt
The cops wouldnt let us take the metro there so we went off to find a pub
That´s BASICALLY what happened
Father John Zuhlsdorf notes on his blog:
Expect more of this in the future, dear readers.
This is the cloaca secularism and even the liberal Catholic agenda brings us, allied as it is with secularism, because it undermines Christian values and therefore respect for human freedom and dignity.
Start think about this sort of thing every day.
Start getting used to the idea.
There is a strong thread of totalitarianism and hate that runs through atheism. Ultimately, it is hatred of God and of man. As atheism recoups from it's political downfall in Communism, it is reasserting itself in Western democracies in its characteristically malevolent way.
We need to recognize it, call it out, and defy it.
Vile hysterics from feral scum.
ReplyDeleteWe are to expect magnanimous rule from such secularists? This is not rendering to Caesar, but to the MOB.
Glad the Spanish police have the sense to use force on them.
Spain is suffering 46% youth unemployment. This has lead to a culture of protest that has been causing problems for months. Over a hundred groups joined the protest of World Youth Day, may of them on the grounds that the high public cost of hosting this event is inappropriate while so many Spaniards are being asked to sacrifice for the benefit of bankers. Of course gays and atheists where prominent in the protest; the Catholic Church does after all promote bigotry against them, but the protesters where also chanting “God yes, church no”. Perhaps the Spaniards have cultural memory of what things where like when the Church ruled Spain, back when Godly men had the good sense to use force on the feral scum.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think anyone should be surprised at the protesters lack of civility when would-be Christian martyrs take the provocative action of wading into the midst of the protest and condescendingly praying for the protesters. These little Christian provocateurs don’t show the sense displayed by American Muslims that purposefully avoid the numerous anti-Mosque protests in this country.
@anon:
ReplyDeleteSpain's high youth unemployment is the result of socialism and the economic catastrophe inevitable from it. Many European economies are on the verge of collapse because of deficit spending and idiot socialist economics. In socialist countries, people accustomed to believing that the government owes them money tend to riot when the government isn't quick enough to give them other people's money. Most of the a**holes rioting in Spain (and in England and in Greece) are socialists who cause the problem.
[I don’t think anyone should be surprised at the protesters lack of civility when would-be Christian martyrs take the provocative action of wading into the midst of the protest and condescendingly praying for the protesters.]
Yes. The site of prayer is such an inducement to violence.
[These little Christian provocateurs don’t show the sense displayed by American Muslims that purposefully avoid the numerous anti-Mosque protests in this country.]
It was Catholic World Youth Day, and the Pope was visiting. The provocation was by the violent atheist mob, not the peaceful Christian kids.
And your assertion that Muslims are predisposed to peaceful avoidance of conflict is LOL funny.
And your assertion that Muslims are predisposed to peaceful avoidance of conflict is LOL funny.
ReplyDeleteI made no assertion of Muslim predisposition. I simply pointed out that Americam Muslims have avoided confrontation with anti-mosque protesters. Perhaps you should try arguing my actual point instead of setting up straw men to laugh at.
@anon:
ReplyDelete[I made no assertion of Muslim predisposition (to avoidance of conflict).]
Yes you did. That was your point: Christian provocation (teens praying) vs Muslim avoidance of conflict.
One of the slimy aspects of atheism is the propensity to make ludicrous assertions and then back away from them when called out.
Atheists are such cowards, like all bullies.
I have no doubt that eventually many of the most hardcore leftists will embrace Islam, anti-homosexuality and all. They are, after all on the same side: hatred of infidel Christianity. Once the leftists figure out that Islam is the biggest club with which to beat Christians, they'll chuck pro-gay like yesterday's newspaper.
ReplyDeleteerrrr well .... Thanks God I am not European XD seriously.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why is Europe such a revolutionary region. I mean it is unlike any other place in the world, maybe just losing for China's History.
Looks like Anon knows a bit about the protests... But I wonder...
One of the slimy aspects of atheism is the propensity to make ludicrous assertions and then back away from them when called out.
ReplyDeleteHappens all the time!
When reading about the fact of evolution it is obvious that atheists like to have it both ways!
Slow and Fast.
Sydney, Australia had the 2008 event, which apparently didn't go off too badly. Protests were mainly about the amount of public funding (some $200 million from state and federal governments) and the number of road closures. There were probably protests about the Sydney Olympics too.
ReplyDeleteMy home city, Perth, is getting CHOGM, a meeting of commonwealth heads of government, towards the end of the year, and apparently the security arrangements are going to be very severe, so it's not a good idea wanting to go anywhere near the venues of the meeting.
I would never think of protesting against events I disagree with. It just is too impolite to those who actually hold these views. I went to the Atheist meeting in Melbourne last year. There were minor protests from the religious and several bought tickets to the session with Richard Dawkins in order to be able to ask him an 'embarrassing' question (it wasn't, it just showed that the questioner didn't have any idea about DNA).
Public protests rarely have any effect. I went to one of the rallies against Australia's ill-advised involvement in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the then Australian prime minister dismissed them claiming that they made war more likely.
CrusadeRex, when was the last time communists descended on Spain? I can only think of the Spanish Civil War, and that was distinguished by the Nazis and Fascists testing out their weapons for WWII.
Pepe, what do you mean by evolution 'slow and fast'?
Michael,
You made a ludicrous statement and then did what you always do when called out, bluster. Anon made a very specific comment about American Muslims reacting with restraint regarding protests against American mosques and you inflated it into all Muslims, worldwide.
And again, I loath Islam as a hideous religious and political system. I reserve my judgement on individual Muslims.
Some people protest against an organization that controls the faith of over a billion people through a very formal global hierarchy, an organization which owns massive holdings of property, art, precious metals, and financial instruments - mostly funded by the donations from some of the poorest people on Earth, an organization so big and powerful that it rarely pays taxes, has its own legal system and even its own country, an organization that declares its leader to have a divine mandate, an organization that gives very specific instruction how people are to live even the most intimate parts of their lives, and threatens them with eternal damnation if they break the rules.
ReplyDeleteAnd Michael Egnor, who gives so much lip service to political freedom, tries to paint the PROTESTORS as "totalitarian".
What a perfect storm of hypocrisy and irony.
@anon:
ReplyDeleteBoth Catholicism and atheism have political and economic structures in the world.
All Catholic power is exercised without violence and with the consent of the faithful. I can disobey the Church any time I choose. I chose to join it. I choose to give it money, or not. I choose to believe in its teachings and obey its teachings.
All atheist power at the nation level in human history has been exercised with violence (100 million deaths and counting), without the consent of the ruled (there have been no atheist democracies). Subjects cannot disobey the atheist state (try telling Kim Jung Il to F*ck himself). You can not leave, or choose not to join, or choose not to pay.
The Catholic Church is the freest and least expensive form of 'rule' on earth. Atheism in state power is the most totalitarian rule in human history.
I'l take criticisms of the Church from anyone except an atheist. Clean your own house. That'll keep you busy for millennia.
@bachfiend:
ReplyDelete[I loath Islam as a hideous religious and political system. I reserve my judgement on individual Muslims.]
I agree on both counts. I detest Islam. Most Muslims I know are very decent people.
No contradiction there. Human beings have immeasurable intrinsic worth, regardless of the ideology they may (unwisely) embrace.
Michael,
ReplyDeleteWhat about my comment about your usual reaction to being told that you're demonstrably wrong, that is, bluster and refuse to admit you've made a mistake?
I wondered about your title for this thread. I'd always thought that 'cloaca' was a purely zoological term. I have just read today in 'Absolute Monarchs', a history of the popes, reference to the Rome of Pope Gregory XVI being a 'cloaca' or sewer, an archaic use of the word.
I wouldn't exactly say that the Catholic Church is the freest and least expensive form of rule on Earth. Historically, it has been dictatorial and very expensive. If it is fairly 'cheapish' at the moment, it's only because it's largely irrelevant.
From my reading, the pilgrims who were abused brought it largely upon themselves. From the twitter account, they heard that there was going to be an anti-Cathololic protest on the Sol Square in the centre of Madrid, a rather dreary square mainly distinguished by the bus station, so they decided to go there to demonstrate against it.
It would have been better if they'd just ignored it, and just engaged in the activities of the WYD. They seem to have been looking for trouble, and found it.
And no, atheism has no political or economic structures in the world. Organizing atheists is like trying to herd cats. North Korea has a religion with veneration of the supreme leader.
Bach,
ReplyDeleteI was indeed referring to the Spanish Civil war, in which thousands of foreign and domestic Communists attempted to overthrow the government and it resulted in a bloody conflict that killed thousands.
Yes the Nazis were in there too. Of course, that just furthers my point.
Maybe I should have stated "the last time internationalists and European federalists clashed over their 'racial', 'secular', and 'humanist' doctrines."
You wrote something I find very strange:
"North Korea has a religion with veneration of the supreme leader."
Is that a strange incarnation of 'no true Scotsman'? That IS state Atheism, Bach.
That IS Atheocracy.
The glorious leader is the moral authority. His 'book' or ideas are the code. That's the way it works when an objective moral code is replaced with man made 'ethics'.
I am surprised you cannot see that. Even some of the biggest zealots for Atheism will admit the horrible implications of Atheist government.
CrusadeRex,
ReplyDeleteActually Franco started the civil war when he rebelled against the Spanish republic. Hitler sent planes to ferry his troops from North Africa and gave his Falangists support together with Mussolini's Italy. The Russian communists only came in afterwards to help the Spanish republic and also themselves to the Spanish gold.
The North Korean dear leader ( or is it beloved leader?) is a ruthless dictator not to advance the cause of atheism but to further his and his military's cause. In the same that Libya's hopefully soon to be deposed tyrant was there not to further Islam but to further his interests and the more despotic past popes were there to enrich themselves (and in some cases their illegitimate children) and not to further Catholicism.
"The Catholic Church is the freest and least expensive form of 'rule' on earth. "
ReplyDeleteWhat a bald falsehood.
You are taught from birth that God is in your head watching your every thought. If you break the rules, your eternal soul is lost to torment or at least to never finding your loved ones in heaven again. If you are a woman, you are at the mercy of a ruling organization from which you are excluded.
I've had the great pleasure of attending the Catholic Church. It was the paternalistic, sexist and prying instruction of Pre-Cana that ended that relationship. I can tell you that the home, the marriage, the bedroom, the mind - NONE of these are free in Catholicism.
As for your nonsense about North Korea - there is NOTHING atheistic about it. The state religion of North Korea is the dictatorship. Does the Pope claim to have a divine mandate? Yes. Does Kim Jong Il claim to have a divine mandate? Yes. Just different flavors of the same Cool-Aid.
From the aforementioned "Malleus" to excommunicating the doctor who terminated the rape pregnancy of a 9-year-old girl too small to safely carry a baby to term - the Catholic Church has demonstrated its totalitarianism quite well throughout history. You cannot deny that and be intellectually honest.
Real freedom is freedom from people who tell you what "divine", and control your society and provide the rules and govern you on your interaction with the divine. Why can't you understand that?
-- RickK
"The US and Saudi Arabia are so... similar."
ReplyDeleteThe US of the "Christian Nation", radical right is VERY similar to Saudi Arabia, or possibly more like Iran. Granted, that is more the philosophy of the Christian Reconstructionists - like those quietly backing the Discovery Institute. Catholicism for all its faults does promote awareness of the wider world, and ensures a well-educated core in its hierarchy. Publicly-declared ignorance as the basis of a political platform seems to be more of a conservative Protestant feature in America.
But either way, the starting point is to believe absurdities.
-- RickK
Egnor: All atheist power at the nation level in human history has been exercised with violence (100 million deaths and counting), without the consent of the ruled (there have been no atheist democracies). Subjects cannot disobey the atheist state (try telling Kim Jung Il to F*ck himself). You can not leave, or choose not to join, or choose not to pay.
ReplyDeleteThe Catholic Church is the freest and least expensive form of 'rule' on earth. Atheism in state power is the most totalitarian rule in human history.
The Roman Catholic Church is not a state. Try comparing apples with apples.
The medieval European states were Christian and neither peaceful nor particularly free. Heretics and witches were burned at stake. 30 Years' War decimated the population of what is now Germany. Ditto Huguenots War in France.