Friday, February 24, 2012

The story of the two pacts...

Commentor anonymous on the claim (the slander, actually) that the Catholic Church was pro-Nazi:

[Nazis] made no bones about the religious nature of their crusade - Hitler likened his regimes attacks against Bolsheviks to the Teutonic crusaders stamping out Russian heresy. You may not like the fact that they called themselves Christians, but the historical record says that they did. And the Catholic church made it official: In 1933 the Vatican and the Nazi government signed their Concordat, putting the official Vatican stamp on the alliance of the German church and the Nazi state. Article 16, reproduced below, required that Catholic bishops swear to honor the Nazi government, to make their subordinates honor it, and to hunt for and prevent action that might endanger it. The following translation of the very important Article 16 of the Reichskonkordat was authorized by the Vatican: Article 16 “Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of fealty either to the Reich Representative of the State concerned, or to the President of the Reich, according to the following formula: “‘Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the [regional - EC] State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it.’”
The 1933 Concordant was one of many that the Church signed with various governments in an effort to secure religious freedom for Catholics. Then, as today, such freedom is under continuous attack.

Cardinal Pacelli (Vatican diplomat and future Pius XII), on return to Rome following negotiation of the Concordant, told the British Ambassador that "I had to choose between an agreement and the virtual elimination of the Catholic Church in the Reich. He described the negotiations with the German government as akin to "negotiating with the devil himself".

The Concordant, of course, was violated massively and immediately by the Nazis, who had no intention of permitting religious freedom.

The Church spoke out repeatedly and emphatically over the next 12 years against Nazi anti-Semitism and brutality.

Here are just a few of countless documents establishing the Church's strong opposition to Nazism:


New York Times headline October 28 1939:

 "Pope Condemns Dictators, Treaty Violators, Racism: Urges Restoring of Poland."

New York Times headline January 23, 1940 

"Vatican Denounces Atrocities in Poland; Germans Called Even Worse Than Russians." 

New York Times headline March 14, 1940: 

"Pope Is Emphatic About Just Peace: Jews' Rights Defended"

Now you might ask: why was the Pope in 1939 condemning 'Dictators, Treaty Violations, and Racism' and 'Urging the Restoration of Poland'?

That has to do with another concordant, this time between atheists and Nazis.

Surely commentor Anonymous didn't forget that atheists signed a pact with Nazi Germany. The pact was not an attempt to secure religious freedom, which of course was precisely what the first atheist government of the 20th century was devoted to exterminating. It was a pact to cooperate and share conquest:


Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact with Secret Protocols 
August 23, 1939 
In August 1939, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany signed a non-aggression pact that publicly renounced warfare between the two totalitarian states. Secretly, the two nations divided Poland, parts of Northern Europe, and Eastern Europe into spheres of influence. Two years later, Adolf Hitler broke the pact when he ordered the invasion of the Soviet Union. 
Main Agreement 
The Government of the German Reich and The Government of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics desirous of strengthening the cause of peace between Germany and the U.S.S.R., and proceeding from the fundamental provisions of the Neutrality Agreement concluded in April, 1926 between Germany and the U.S.S.R., have reached the following Agreement: 

Article I. Both High Contracting Parties obligate themselves to desist from any act of violence, any aggressive action, and any attack on each other, either individually or jointly with other Powers. 
Article II. Should one of the High Contracting Parties become the object of belligerent action by a third Power, the other High Contracting Party shall in no manner lend its support to this third Power. 
Article III. The Governments of the two High Contracting Parties shall in the future maintain continual contact with one another for the purpose of consultation in order to exchange information on problems affecting their common interests. 
Article IV. Should disputes or conflicts arise between the High Contracting Parties shall participate in any grouping of Powers whatsoever that is directly or indirectly aimed at the other party. 
Article V. Should disputes or conflicts arise between the High Contracting Parties over problems of one kind or another, both parties shall settle these disputes or conflicts exclusively through friendly exchange of opinion or, if necessary, through the establishment of arbitration commissions. 
Article VI. The present Treaty is concluded for a period of ten years, with the proviso that, in so far as one of the High Contracting Parties does not advance it one year prior to the expiration of this period, the validity of this Treaty shall automatically be extended for another five years. 
Article VII. The present treaty shall be ratified within the shortest possible time. The ratifications shall be exchanged in Berlin. The Agreement shall enter into force as soon as it is signed. 
Secret Additional Protocol. 
Article I. In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement in the areas belonging to the Baltic States (Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), the northern boundary of Lithuania shall represent the boundary of the spheres of influence of Germany and U.S.S.R. In this connection the interest of Lithuania in the Vilna area is recognized by each party. 
Article II. In the event of a territorial and political rearrangement of the areas belonging to the Polish state, the spheres of influence of Germany and the U.S.S.R. shall be bounded approximately by the line of the rivers Narev, Vistula and San. The question of whether the interests of both parties make desirable the maintenance of an independent Polish States and how such a state should be bounded can only be definitely determined in the course of further political developments. 
In any event both Governments will resolve this question by means of a friendly agreement. 
Article III. With regard to Southeastern Europe attention is called by the Soviet side to its interest in Bessarabia. The German side declares its complete political disinteredness in these areas. 
Article IV. This protocol shall be treated by both parties as strictly secret.

Compare the Soviet atheist concordant with the Nazis and the Vatican's concordant with the Nazis. One concordant was a successful attempt (for a couple of years) to expand totalitarianism. The other was an unsuccessful attempt to secure religious freedom.

That same struggle continues to this day.

25 comments:

  1. "Cardinal Pacelli (Vatican diplomat and future Pius XII), on return to Rome following negotiation of the Concordant, told the British Ambassador that "I had to choose between an agreement and the virtual elimination of the Catholic Church in the Reich."

    Gee. The same sort of rationale that Chamberlain used when he returned from negotiating with Germany. Except he was a politician and didn't claim that he spoke with moral authority.

    Nice to see that you are admitting the Catholic church is nothing but a spineless political organization with no moral backbone at all.

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    1. He (Cardinal Pacelli) described the negotiations with the German government as akin to "negotiating with the devil himself".

      I have the same feeling when I read some commenters on this blog. I see the Devil writing in their place!

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    2. I always find it VERY rich to see Americans equivocate about Chamberlain.
      No mention of the Kennedys (like Joe) or other backers.
      No mention of Isolationism.
      No mention of the post war Ghelen and Paperclip programs where thousands of the WORST Nazis were employed and made immune from prosecution (or 'vanished' into big corps).

      Consider what is worse: Bluffing about peace while ordering a QUADRUPLING the strength of your air force and navy and designing contingency, or preaching isolationism (and much worse) while the Reich expands until you're pacific navy is LITERALLY attacked and destroyed killing thousands by the Axis - while it lays moored?


      The Vatican had a Luger to the temple.
      London had a massing army of fanatics threatening world war and DECLARED WAR on them.
      What did you folks have to worry about? Booze and Al Capone?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtrOJnpmz6s
      (WHO is that? Roosevelt?)

      America?
      She waited till she was bombed. Why is that? Why is American reluctance to fight seen as 'noble' and 'just', but Chamberlains attempts at delay are seen as 'appeasement' and cowardly.
      The USA is required to defend only herself (just war), but the UK and her Empire is supposed to defend the Czechs and Poles from the Reich and the Soviets?
      Try your own standards on for size, Anon.
      I think you will find they do not fit.

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  2. Egnor: Compare the Soviet atheist concordant with the Nazis and the Vatican's concordant with the Nazis.

    It's hard to find a more inept example. It was the Soviets who defeated the Nazis. With a little help from the Allies.

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    1. Pre-Barbarossa Russian-German relations were governed by the pact given above. It's hard to think of a more obtuse comment than yours.

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    2. LOL Oleg.
      Mr Chekov makes his comeback.
      Utter nonsense.
      Maybe Patton was right after all.

      Delete
  3. Michael,

    I suspect that Pope Pius XII was more motivated by anti-communism because of his frightening experiences in Munich after World War I, and came to the pragmatic decision that my enemy's enemy, whilst not my friend, isn't as great an enemy.

    The Concordat was an attempt to ensure the survival of the Catholic Church in Germany by giving up as a sacrifice the centralist Catholic political part. A bad decision, but mirrored in the spineless acquiescence of all the other opposition political parties (save the communists, who were marked out for harsher treatment) to be dissolved.

    The pope's statements during the war were rather diplomatic. Whether he could have strengthened them and made a difference, I don't know.

    To give Pope Pius XII credit, he was one of the first public figures, if not the first (and I think he was) to condemn the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hiroshima might possibly have been justified. Maybe. Perhaps. Nagasaki on the other hand was a definite war crime.

    The only other question about the Catholic Church was the aid it gave to Nazi war criminals in escaping justice by giving them sanctuary and Vatican passports and allowing them to escape to South America.

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    1. "The only other question about the Catholic Church was the aid it gave to Nazi war criminals in escaping justice"...

      Not about 'Catholic Church' but about some priests.
      There is no proof that gerarchy in Rome knew about those facts.

      There are indeed a lot of material about CIA's involvement and CIA, of course, means the USA governement.

      https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/97unclass/naziwar.html

      (for the URSS it's the same)

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    2. 100% Domics.
      Try looking up Ghelen or Paperclip, Bach.
      Lot's of amnesty and passports handed out that way.

      Delete
  4. London, 'Jewish Chronicle' March 10, 1939

    POPE PIUS XII
    DEMOCRACIES APPLAUD CARDINALS' CHOISE
    WHEN NAZIS ATTACKED MGR PACELLI
    "Cardinal Pacelli's elevation as Pope in succession to Pius XI has evoked general approval in the democratic countries, where it is believed that he will follow closely in the footsteps of Pius XI and continue the stand against totalitarian attacks on the Church.
    Among the congratulations receveid are messages frome the Anglo-Jewish Community, the Synagogue Council of America, the Canadian Jewish Congress and the Polish Rabbinical Council.
    It is widely recalled that the new Pope has shown himself in the past to have shared Pius XI's hostility to Nazi paganism and racialism....
    The Nazis in Germany appear to have been taken by surprise...
    It is interesting to recall.. that not very long ago, on January 22, the Voelkisher Beobachter, published picture of Cardinal Pacelli and other Church dignitaries beneath a collective heading of "Agitators in the Vatican against Fascism and National Socialism".

    (Voelkisher Beobachter was the official organ of the Nazi party).

    http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/144/copiadiimage4.jpg

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  5. Approximately 60% of all Nazis where practicing Catholics. This of course includes those Nazis actually running the extermination camps.

    -KW

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    1. 100% of Soviet, Chinese, Cambodian, and North Korean communists were/are atheists.

      And I'd like to see your documentation for the "practicing Catholic" extermination camp commandants. They couldn't have run the camps-- they would spend all of their time in confession.

      Show me the evidence for your batshit claim, or admit that you just fabricated it.

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    2. The German census of May 1939 indicates that 54 percent of Germans considered themselves Protestant and 40 percent considered themselves Catholic, with only 3.5 percent claiming to be neo-pagan "believers in God," and 1.5 percent unbelievers.

      Eric Johnson, Nazi terror: the Gestapo, Jews, and ordinary Germans. Google books.

      Delete
    3. @oleg:

      What's your point? That Germany was an historically Christian country, with a large minority Catholic population?

      That's not news.

      The question is:

      1) What are the links (philosophical, doctrinal, cultural, etc) between Christianity and Nazism?

      2) What are the links between atheism and Nazism?

      3) What are the links between Christianity and communism?

      4) What are the links between atheism and communism?

      Answers:

      1)Minimal

      2)Small

      3)Minimal

      4)Massive

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    4. You can wiggle all you want, Mike, but even the Nazis were self-described Christians. Mostly Protestants with a substantial fraction of Catholics, reflecting the general trends in Germany.

      Delete
    5. “And I'd like to see your documentation for the "practicing Catholic" extermination camp commandants.”

      I have none, I pulled that out of my ass based on something I read or heard some time ago. Per Oleg’s source ~40% catholic or ~60% Protestant would have been more accurate. More accurate still would have been ~95% Christian.

      When I said running the camps, I didn’t necessarily mean the camp commandants, I meant those actively participating in the operation of the industrial scale genocide machine.

      To put it simply, being Catholic or Protestant was what kept you out of the extermination camps; while not being Catholic or Protestant put you in the concentration camps. The Holocaust was Christians exterminating non-Christians on a massive scale using eugenics as a rationalization.

      -KW

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    6. Prominent Catholic Nazis: Adolf Hitler, Josef Goebbels, Heinrich Himmler, Reinhard Heydrich, Heinrich Müller, Klaus Barbie, Franz Von Papen, Reinhard Gehlen, Fritz Thyssen Julius Streicher, and Rudolf Höss. Every single one of them, and millions of other Catholic Germans who willingly participated in the Nazi Regime remained in good standing with the Catholic Church until their death. Not even after several of these men had been arrested and sent to trial for crimes against humanity did the Church take any kind of official action.

      During the war, the only Germans who the Church threatened to excommunicate were those who advocated cremation of dead bodies.

      The Catholic Church in the twentieth century seems to have loved fascist dictators. In addition to Adolf Hitler, all of the following fascist leaders were Catholics in good standing throughout their stay in power:

      Belgium's Leon Degrelle
      Bohemia-Moravia's Emil Hacha
      Croatia's Ante Pavelic
      Italy's Benito Mussolini
      Portugal's Antonio Salazar
      Slovakia's Fr. Josef Tiso
      Spain's Francisco Franco
      Sudetenland's Konrad Henlein
      Vichy-France's Pierre Laval
      Vichy-France's Henry Petain

      Fr. Josef Tiso was a Catholic priest in good standing before, during, and after his participation in the Holocaust.

      If you want to get a look at some of Hitler's willing executioners, one need to look no further than his Catholic supporters. And the Church took no action at all against them, even after they were deposed from power.

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    7. Catholicism isn't a race or an ethnicity.

      Catholicism is the practice of Catholicism-- attending weekly mass, taking communion, going to confession, etc.

      Not a single leading Nazi was a practicing Catholic, that I know of.

      Regarding the dictators, I'll assume you are as full of shit as you are on the Nazis, so I won't bother to check. Some on your list (Franco, Salazar) were indeed Catholics, and their dictatorships were a mixed bag.

      Mussolini was not a practicing Catholic.

      By the way, what religion were Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot? What religion were all Communist dictators, and all members of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union, Communist China, etc?

      It seems that you have enough explaining to do without fabricating Catholic practice for Nazis.

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    8. "Not a single leading Nazi was a practicing Catholic, that I know of."

      Well, you do have an established track record as an exceedingly ignorant individual, so this isn;t that surprising.

      Himmler was a strict practicing Catholic, with an exceptionally Catholic upbringing and family. His uncle was a Jesuit and a was instrumental in formulating an alliance with the Jesuits and the SS, leading to the creation of an organization within the SS Central Security Service with most of its main posts were held by Catholic priests wearing the black uniform of the SS.

      Reinhard Gehlen was devoutly Catholic, and a member in good standing of the Knights of Malta.

      Franz Von Papen had headed the powerful Catholic "Center Party" and been a close friend of Pope Pius XII from the time that he had been the Papal Nuncio to Germany. Were it not for Papen, President Von Hindenburg might never have been persuaded to make Adolf Hitler Chancellor of Germany. He beame Hitler's first Vice-Chancellor and the Catholic statesman who negotiated the infamous Cordordat of 1933 on behalf of the Nazi government.

      Yeah, these weren't "practicing Catholic". Your protestations that there wasn't a strong nexus between the Catholic church and Nazi leadership ring hollow when the facts are laid out.

      Pope Pius XII was quite happy to wield his powerful excommunication tool shortly after World War II to dissuade Italian Catholics from even joining the Communist Party, which was very popular in their country at the time. Yet, throughout the 12 year Nazi reign of terror, not one of the multitude of Nazi leaders who were Roman Catholic was ever excommunicated for their crimes against humanity, no matter how monstrous. Even after the Nazis were out of power, their crimes were laid bare, and they had no ability to retaliate against the Church or its members, the Church took no action.

      Your Church, despite its claims to the contrary, is a morally bankrupt organization that stood by while Fascists ruled Europe. Scream and wail all you want, but the facts show this to be true. Pretend that the many Fascist leaders weren't Catholic, but when one of them was even a priest in good standing with the Church, your arguments can be seen for the worthless wishful thinking that they are.

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    9. [Himmler was a strict practicing Catholic]

      References... references.

      Himmler was a pagan.

      [His uncle was a Jesuit and a was instrumental in formulating an alliance with the Jesuits and the SS, leading to the creation of an organization within the SS Central Security Service with most of its main posts were held by Catholic priests wearing the black uniform of the SS.]

      I presume you're referring to the Ustase, which was a Croatian fascist organization prior to and during WWII. They certainly committed war crimes and ran concentration camps (Jasenovac camp). The chief guard at the camp was Morislav Filipovic, who was a Franciscan who was defrocked by the order in 1942 for his crimes.

      The Ustase certainly were pro-Catholic, and some clergy had uncomfortably close relations with them.

      There were countless Catholics in Europe at the time. There was almost complete absence of practicing Catholics among leading Nazis.

      On the other hand, all Communists were atheists, and it's pretty clear that your slander of the Church is a smokescreen divert attention form the intimate relationship between Communism and atheism.

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    10. certainly I can not replicate all the lies written by anonymous.
      Anyway, something about the 'strict practicing Catholic' Himmler...

      Do you know that the 'strict practicing Catholic' Himmler "was the man who ... compelled tens of thousands of SS men to leave the Church and advocated a public execution of the Pope"?

      (in 'The order of the death's head: the story of Hitler's SS' by Heinz Höhne, p. 36)

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    11. "Fr. Josef Tiso was a Catholic priest in good standing before, during, and after his participation in the Holocaust."

      a lie.

      "Pius XII had refused to confirm Tiso's monsignorial title, and had ordered the Vatican's charge d'affaires to protest when the Bratislava parliament passed anti-Jewish legislation in 1941".
      (Jonathan Luxmoore,Jolanta Babiuch, 'The Vatican and the red flag').

      "As a result of this disagreement, the Vatican “retired” Tiso's title of monsignor, thereby demoting him."
      (Phayer, 'The Catholic Church and the Holocaust', p. 14)

      "...in a series of articles in December 1945, the Communist press went to pains to dissociate Tiso from Catholicism. Front-page lead headlines, with titles such as “The Protest of the Vatican Against Tiso's Policy,” “The Vatican Against Tiso,” and “Tiso Betrayed Even Catholicism,” drove home the point."...
      (Ramon Felak, 'After Hitler, before Stalin', p. 27).

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  6. "Commentor anonymous on the claim (the slander, actually)"

    It's only slander if it is untrue. Sadly for you, it isn't untrue. It is interesting that your defense of the Catholic Church here is to say "the Soviets did the same thing!" I guess that is your admission that the Catholic Church is morally equivalent to the Soviets.

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  7. from Nuremberg process:

    RELATIONS OF GERMAN CHURCHES WITH HITLER:

    http://library2.lawschool.cornell.edu/donovan/pdf/Nuremberg_3/Vol_X_18_04_01.pdf

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  8. Cardinal Pacelli was elected Pope, on 2 March 1939.
    On 4 March Goebells wrote in his diary:

    "Midday with the Fuehrer. He is considering whether we should abrogate the Concordat with Rome in light of Pacelli's election as Pope."

    This was Hitler's first reaction at the Pacelli election. How could be Pacelli a friend of the Nazis?
    Only people who does not kwow history could say that.

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