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| New European Union poster |
From Dan Hannan:
Take a close look at this promotional poster. Notice anything? Alongside the symbols of Christianity, Judaism, Jainism and so on is one of the wickedest emblems humanity has conceived: the hammer and sickle.
For three generations, the badge of the Soviet revolution meant poverty, slavery, torture and death. It adorned the caps of the chekas who came in the night. It opened and closed the propaganda films which hid the famines. It advertised the people's courts where victims of purges and show-trials were condemned. It fluttered over the re-education camps and the gulags. For hundreds of millions of Europeans, it was a symbol of foreign occupation. Hungary, Lithuania and Moldova have banned its use, and various former communist countries want it to be treated in the same way as Nazi insignia.
Yet here it sits on a poster in the European Commission, advertising the moral deafness of its author (I hope that's what it is, rather than lingering nostalgia). The Bolshevist sigil celebrates the ideology which, in strict numerical terms, must be reckoned the most murderous ever devised by our species. That it can be passed unremarked day after day in the corridors of Brussels is nauseating.
Communism is the most murderous and pervasive tyranny in human history. The Lefties at the EU(SSR) consider it an integral part of the Union. It serves to remind that although state communism fell in the late eighties and early nineties, the ideology that vitalized it-- atheist collectivism-- is very much alive.
It infests the corridors of power the West, and it is rising again.
Totally misleading story of course. From here:
ReplyDelete"The poster is not a European Commission poster. It was part of a series of posters hanging in a corridor which were made by artists in the context of a competition by the Czech Council on Foreign Relations. This competition was not funded by the EU," Giedrius Sudikas, spokesman for the commission's office in Lithuania, told AFP.
"As soon as the controversial symbol was pointed out, the poster was immediately removed. The building managers of all the Commission's buildings have now been asked to check if this poster is being displayed anywhere else on Commission property and remove it."
All right, Troy, I read the link you provided. You have some trifling objections to details that are not substantive. Don't miss the forest for the trees.
DeleteThe poster was not originally the product of the European Commission but it was hanging in the hallway at the European Commission, which is exactly what Daniel Hannan said. You're wailing the crap out of a straw man here.
"The European Commission has removed a poster displaying the communist hammer and sickle symbol from its Brussels headquarters after former Soviet-ruled EU member Lithuania expressed outrage, an official said Monday.
Also, it was funded by the EU, at least partially.
"Arunas Vinciunas, Lithuanian ambassador-at-large in Brussels, said the poster was part of a campaign part-financed by the executive body of the 27-nation European Union."
I don't find the story misleading at all. I do, however, find your comments misleading.
JQ
Really? Apparently the story has misled (I'm being generous here) some into believing that the poster is some kind of 'official' EU poster. In reality, it's just a poster created by a participant in a competition organized by a Czech organization.
DeleteIt was partially funded by the EU. Your link even said so. That was Dr. Egnor's gripe. Is that official enough for you?
DeleteDaniel Hannan's gripe was that it hung on the walls at the European Commission. Which it did.
Just once I'd like to see you get upset about the substance of the story, rather than nitpick the details about whether it was made for a Czech competition or not.
JQ
If this had concerned an 'official' EU poster, approved by EU leadership, then I would have been somewhat upset to see the communist symbol. Since it didn't, I'm not.
DeleteAnd the link you've supplied was from October 19, 2012, which, even by your standards, is old, out-of-date news.
ReplyDeleteCan't you provide something fresh, instead of demonstrating your paranoia about gun control, constitutional law, etc?
It is news in the alternative universe of American conservative journalism. Their journalists are a little slow on the uptake.
ReplyDeleteBreitbart.com reported it last week.
Hoo
And now the US right-wing blogosphere is filled with outrage.
DeleteHuman Events
Free Republic
Etc
Hoo
The irony, of course, is that the poster couldn't be displayed in an American school classroom-- not because of the hammer and sickle, but because of the cross.
DeleteDr. Egnor,
DeleteAs we have established that it is a slow day in the right-wing blogosphere, perhaps you would like to refocus your remaining mental abilities to try and give us a sensible definition of a "materialist scientist?" Or perhaps you should accomplish that poor old bot Hoo was right?
Hoo
Hoo was right? Not our Hoo, that's hoo.
DeleteA "materialist scientist" is a scientist who also happens to be a materialist.
Now that wasn't so hard, was it?
But poor old Hoo (who also doesn't comprehend that the term bot* has nothing to do with the Turing Test) incorrectly inferred that a "materialist scientist" is a scientist who thinks that science can be "conducted" without appeal to God. Apparently the Hoo-author wasn't aware that methodological naturalist is the correct term for a scientist who believes that science can be "conducted" without appeal to God.
The methodological naturalist, of course, may be a materialist... or not.
* The unit "Hoo" actually may be a bot (i.e., an automated tool), which would explain why it can't pass the Turing Test.
Dr. Boggs,
DeleteI am not sure that you will find many scientist who are materialists in the old philosophical sense that ou imply. If that is the definition you would like to use, it is pretty useless. One might say it is an oxymoron.
Sincerely,
Hoo
You're welcome. I was delighted to expand your lexicon.
DeleteDr. Boggs,
DeleteIf your goal was to expnd my lexicon then you failed. You also failed on a more basic level by providing a definition that is an oxymoron.
Retirement tends to dull the mind. I hear that solving crossword puzzles helps.
Hoo
Ah. Lose the argument, attack the opponent.
DeleteDr. Boggs,
DeleteI will remind you that you attacked me yesterday by proposing that I am a bot. You did it again today. Perhaps you should not throw stones if you live in a glass house.
Hoo
I remind you that yesterday, I wasn't communicating with you in the discussion about the Turing Test. Until you butted in, of course.
DeleteAnd both yesterday and today, you referred to yourself as a bot, an automated tool, a description I wholeheartedly endorse but did not originate.
You were talking about me behind my back. That's doubly rude, dude.
DeleteHoo the bot
Well, not precisely "behind your back", but I did sense you were within "earshot".
DeleteI do accept the label of doubly rude. Triply, even. Quadruply, even quintuply, if it makes you feel better.
I'll try to do better in the future.
The irony, of course, is that the poster couldn't be displayed in an American school classroom-- not because of the hammer and sickle, but because of the cross.
DeleteThe real irony is that this is absolutely false, and you know it.
Even if everything in this post was factual (a rarity on this blog), using an offensive symbol found in a poster deigned to foster unity and tolerance among many beliefs to illustrate the rising power of communism in the West, only serves to show how weak the argument is.
ReplyDelete-KW
KW: I honestly think that the artist was trying to find a symbol to represent atheism, and the hammer-and-sickle was all he could think of. Look at the poster. Every other symbol represents a religion--Christianity, Judaism, Shintoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam. Atheism, of course, doesn't have a symbol, but the artist probably wanted to show that there's room for atheists in Europe too. He had to think of something, so he used the hammer-and-sickle.
DeleteI don't think that that's an appropriate symbol to use, of course. Atheism is central to communism but not all atheists are communists. Most aren't, in fact.
"...using an offensive symbol found in a poster deigned to foster unity and tolerance among many beliefs to illustrate the rising power of communism in the West, only serves to show how weak the argument is."
I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing about a swastika.
JQ
You could use some "tolerance among many beliefs," KW.
DeleteBen
JQ,
DeleteIf the designer of this poster wanted to include atheism as a religion (it isn't), then why not just use an 'A'? Although, why use religious symbols at all? Why not just use the national flags making up the EEC? The Christian Cross hasn't been an unifying symbol in parts of Europe - such as in Belfast, where murderous sectarian violence between Protestants and Catholics was rife till quite recently.
"I honestly think that the artist was trying to find a symbol to represent atheism, and the hammer-and-sickle was all he could think of."
DeleteHeh. Probably true.
An A might have been a better symbol, though he might not have thought of it, and some might have mistaken it for the anarchist's symbol.
DeleteThe fighting in Belfast is less religious than you might think. In any case, I didn't say anything about the cross being a unifying symbol. I just think that the artists was trying to say that there's room for everybody in Europe, to include atheists. Atheists don't have a symbol so he chose the hammer-and-sickle as the closest approximation. Obviously, the hammer-and-sickle is not beloved of all atheists because most atheists are not communists. Like you, for example.
>>Why not just use the national flags making up the EEC?<<
Because this isn't about different nations or nationalities coexisting in the same union. It's about different religions.
JQ
I honestly think that the artist was trying to find a symbol to represent atheism
DeleteI think that's quite likely true. Or the artist considered communism a kind of religion
Doctor, communism and atheism are not the same thing. There is overlapping, but they are not the same thing.
DeleteJQ
JQ,
DeleteDr. Egnor don't do nuance.
Hoo
@JQ:
Delete[Doctor, communism and atheism are not the same thing. There is overlapping, but they are not the same thing.]
It was a humorous comment about the hammer and sickle representing atheism.
That's true. Atheism is not Communism-- there are certainly capitalist atheists, libertarian atheists, etc.
But Communism is atheistic, and Communism is the only political form atheism has ever taken at the level of the nation-state.
And atheists seem so disinterested in exploring why it is that the only large-scale political form atheism has ever taken has been a totalitarian hell-hole.
'Ohhh... look... there's another Richard Dawkins book signing...'
I love how the usual suspects are all pooh-poohing this.
ReplyDeleteI want you to imagine this hypothetical. The same poster hangs at the headquarters of the national GOP, except the hammer is replaced with a swastika. "We Can All Share the Same Elephant. GOP 4 All." Now tell me that you would care that this story is four months old, or that it wasn't originally made for the Republican Party Headquarters.
Ben
Ben,
DeleteActually, if the GOP had a similar poster, with a Swastica instead of a hammer-and-sickle, I'd have to look very carefully at it, and wonder if the Swastica was the Nazi one. Actually, the Swastica is a very old religious symbol too. It's a Tibetan Buddhist one. The Nazis adopted it and reversed it. Off hand, I can't say whether the Nazi Swastica is clockwise or counter-clockwise. Do you know, without looking? The first time I saw a Swastica in Lhasa, I was considerably taken aback.
Actually, after looking at the Wikipedia article on the Swastika, it turns out to be an extremely widespread symbol, including in American Indian tribes and on medieval Christian churches. The Nazis have a lot to answer for. Including spoiling the good reputation of an ancient symbol.
DeleteGod forbid Dr. Egnor travel to Japan. He'd have a heart attack seeing all the swastikas on Buddhist temples there!
DeleteHoo
The hammer and sickle is a legitimate symbol of a faith-based community (that oddly persists despite the utter failure of its most ardent adherents). Communism preaches a "Good News"-type salvation story (derivative of the egalitarian principles expressed in the New Testament and the communal nature of the early church) in which a Worker's Paradise and human evolution (i.e., the "New Soviet Man", transhumanism, etc) will be advanced in the terrestrial, material sphere by means of revolution, the abolition of private property, etc.
ReplyDeleteSo JQ, is it your contention that a government should review art submitted for a contest for political acceptability?
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, Egnor's comments below the quoted portion of the post do indeed imply the poster is evidence of Eu endorsement of Communism.
Boo
Well, I don't know what Egnor "implied". I leave that to the mind-readers and telepaths.
DeleteBut I do know what he said - viz., "It serves to remind that although state communism fell in the late eighties and early nineties, the ideology that vitalized it-- atheist collectivism-- is very much alive." - and he is absolutely correct.
All one need do to find examples is look closely at the rabble (as repugnant a task as that may be) who attend any anti-capitalism "protest" here or abroad.
"Implied" is not the right word. Dr. Egnor stated it rather explicitly at the end of the opening post. No need for telepathy. Basic reading comprehension will do.
DeleteHoo
Communism is an integral part of the Union, in that the Communist left has representation in the EP (at least according to Wikipedia, which is as far as I'm willing to go on this issue). Hence, Communists are an integral part of EU governance (at least until the EU dis-integrates). But that is not necessarily an "endorsement", or an implication of "endorsement". Look that word up, OK?
DeleteThink of it like this: if there is a small group of Libertarians in the US Congress, they are definitely an integral part of American governance if they cast votes and propose legislation. But that does not "imply" or explicitly mean that the US government "endorses" Libertarianism.
See how that works?
If communism were indeed an integral part of the EU, surely the hammer and circle would be allowed to stay. Instead, they were removed as soon as people discovered them. Does not look like an integral part to me.
DeleteHoo
@Boo:
Delete[So JQ, is it your contention that a government should review art submitted for a contest for political acceptability?]
It's a political contest, so of course political acceptability matters.
The hammer and sickle has the same genocidal totalitarian denotation that the swastika has.
Why one, and not the other?
Well, I'd guess it was embarrassing, given that the new members from the east have some practical experience with the symbol.
DeleteNevertheless, Communist politicians are an integral part of EU governance. Unless they've kicked them out of the Parliament, of course.
The poster speaks volumes.
ReplyDeleteThe membership of the EU elite speaks even louder.