WTF?
DHS Purchases 21.6 Million More Rounds of AmmunitionYou don't have to be a paranoid black-helicopter survivalist type to wonder....
Federal agency has now acquired enough bullets to wage 30 year war
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
February 7, 2013
The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase a further 21.6 million rounds of ammunition to add to the 1.6 billion bullets it has already obtained over the course of the last 10 months alone, figures which have stoked concerns that the federal agency is preparing for civil unrest.
A solicitation posted yesterday on the Fed Bid website details how the bullets are required for the DHS Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico.
The solicitation asks for 10 million pistol cartridge .40 caliber 165 Grain, jacketed Hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds) and 10 million 9mm 115 grain jacketed hollow point bullets (100 quantities of 100,000 rounds).
The document also lists a requirement for 1.6 million pistol cartridge 9mm ball bullets (40 quantities of 40,000 rounds).
An approximation of how many rounds of ammunition the DHS has now secured over the last 10 months stands at around 1.625 billion. In March 2012, ATK announced that they had agreed to provide the DHS with a maximum of 450 million bullets over four years, a story that prompted questions about why the feds were buying ammunition in such large quantities. In September last year, the federal agency purchased a further 200 million bullets.
To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month. Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years.
Don Sensing has some insights and suggests some explanations for the DHS' sudden purchase of enough bullets to shoot every American-- man, woman and child-- five times:
On Jan. 2, DHS awarded a contract to
...Evian Group Inc., an organization that was formed just five days before the announcement of the solicitation [in December].
As James Smith documents, Evian Group seems to be little more than a front organization and doesn’t appear to have any real business assets, a genuine physical address, a website, or even a phone number.
So not only is the DHS stockpiling decades of war's worth of ammunition - which means literally centuries of DHS usage - it's doing so through front companies that come into being to collect the contract checks and presumably disappear once the checks have been written. The real questions here are who owns or controls Evian Group and what is his/their connection to the Democrat party?
Again the question, Why is DHS buying all this ammo? Here are the answers I propose in order of my preference of accuracy:
1. To transfer enormous sums of money to politically-connected or -useful individuals. In other words, the massive purchases are just old fashioned, money laundering graft and corruption. It sure would be useful to know how much Evian was paid for the ammo, because my guess is that Evian's controllers are buying the ammo from manufacturers at discount, then marking it up at least 40 percent to sell it to DHS.
What ultimately happens to that 40 percent markup? It goes two places: the bank accounts of Evian's controllers get half and the other half is funneled through shell-corps, bogus non-profits and established foundations, finally to the Democrat National Committee and Democrat campaigns and causes.
2. To reduce the supply of ammunition available to ordinary Americans.
3. To shoot right-wing domestic "terrorists," although honestly the purchases so far exceed what might be remotely be needed for that even if these presumed terrorists ever, you know, actually started terrorizing, that I can't imagine this is much related to the reason for the purchases.
No, this is looting the public treasury, pure and simple, to keep the Democrat party in power.Sounds like a hybrid of an aggregation of massive lethal force by a domestic surveillance federal agency and run-of-the-mill Chicago-Democrat-gangster money-laundering.
Do you think that there could still be an innocent explanation for the DHS ammo spree? A commentor on Rantburg has the last word:
What's "Evian" spelled backwards?
This may be true, but Infowars.com is a pretty awful source. Alex Jones is a nut.
ReplyDeleteBen
So is Dr. Egnor.
DeleteHoo
People who read Infowars are almost as wacky as people who watch MSNBC. I mean, seriously, have you seen Chris Dorner's manifesto? Sheesh. Apparently he was all up in arms (literally!) about gun control, or the lack thereof, in the United States. If Congress didn't act to restrict gun ownership more than it already is, he wanted King Obama to issue a royal decree making it so. Until that happened, his plan was to shoot more people.
DeleteShooting people to protest a lack of gun control. Now I've heard everything!
Little John
Don't worry about the gun nuts. It's the gun CONTROL nuts you need to worry about.
DeleteIt's strange that leftists aren't calling for a "new tone" or more "civility" in the wake of this shooting. Some nut shoots a congresswoman and they expect the rest of us to be conciliatory, as if it was our fault for supposedly inspiring him to do it with some crosshairs map that no one can prove that he ever saw.
TRISH
It's also funny how you do not even bother reading your own material. A simple cursory glance would show that the latest Bid is for 240.000 bullets and not 21.6 millions... But I think confirmation bias is too good to let facts and common sense get in the way...
ReplyDeleteFred
Oh Fred, you scooped me by one minute!
DeleteFollow the first link in the story. The recquisition is for 240 000 bullets, not 21.6 million.
ReplyDeleteI followed it. Where are you getting the figure of 240,000? I'm not sure I understand this government form.
DeletePerhaps I misunderstand, but from what I can see, they're asking for three different kinds of ammunition: Pistol Cartridge .40 caliber 165 Grain, 9MM 115 GRAIN JACKETED HOLLOW POINT P/N 9BP-115 GRAIN, and PISTOL CARTIDGE 9MM BALL 124 GRAIN. Two kinds of ammunition come in units of 100,000 each, and 40,000 each for the first variety. They're asking for 100 units (100 X 100,000) of two kinds and 40 units (40 X 40,000) of one kind. That's more than 240,000 bullets.
For the first type of ammunition, they want 40 X 40,000. For the second and third types they want 100 X 100,000.
(40 X 40,000) + 2(100 X 100,000) = 21.6 million.
TRISH
Also, Alex Jones is crazy and Infowars people scare me.
DeleteTRISH
@ Trish: That's the way I calculated it too.
DeleteLittle John
The units are MX, which means 1 000, not 100 000:
Deletehttp://www.all-acronyms.com/MX/Thousand/1127449
For the first type of ammunition, they want 40 X 1 000. For the second and third types they want 100 X 1 000.
(40 X 1 000) + 2(100 X 1 000) = 240 000.
You can also look at the same source used by infowars: "Yesterday, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC), located in Glynco, Georgia submitted a request for solicitation for another 240,000 rounds of “training” ammunition."
http://www.prepperpodcast.com/dhs-training-ammunition-training/#ixzz2K6UnlH6O
Okay. I see. "MX" was not something I was familiar with. Well, leave it to Infowars to get this stuff wrong.
DeleteTRISH
Nice! More bullets for the range
DeleteThe units are MX, which means 1 000, not 100 000:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.all-acronyms.com/MX/Thousand/1127449
For the first type of ammunition, they want 40 X 1 000. For the second and third types they want 100 X 1 000.
(40 X 1 000) + 2(100 X 1 000) = 240 000.
You can also look at the same source used by infowars: "Yesterday, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC), located in Glynco, Georgia submitted a request for solicitation for another 240,000 rounds of “training” ammunition."
http://www.prepperpodcast.com/dhs-training-ammunition-training/#ixzz2K6UnlH6O
I rather like Alex Jones.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with everything he says, or that his site puts out...not by a long shot. I am, after all, one of his hated Red Coats (quite literally).
But, he is a real person. A real American. I can respect a guy like him, even if I disagree with a lot of his rhetoric.
He makes Glen beck look like Anderson Cooper.
He blew open the Bohemian club, and that alone makes me admire the man's work. He was also instrumental in opening this nations eyes on the Waco massacre.
As for the rounds: Infowars, the blaze, and drudge are not the only source for the information.
You're allies are all very concerned about this purchase too.
Want the raw goods and numbers?
Try searching ATK corp (if all their sites have not been removed yet). You will see they were the first of several bids awarded by the DHS. This FIRST number they released was 450 million (a SINGLE order) of hollow point ammunition (including .40).
That was the first order of 4 and near HALF a billion rounds, already.
The total number is well over 1 billion (US). Info wars may have messed up the reading of one or two documents, but the story and all the money that accompanies it- actually carried by the international press and taken from the contractors own releases - is a reality.
My take on what it means?
1 to a degree,2 as a back up, AND 3 is why the rounds are HOLLOW point. The addendum to 3 - that 'right wingers' would have to rise up in revolt first - is absolutely naive. Democide only requires the illusion of 'security', not the reality.
Beyond all that it was a test.
The folks that run your country (not the actors you vote for) wanted to see how you would react to such an order. What they discovered was far more terrifying than any calibre round.
“Try searching ATK corp (if all their sites have not been removed yet). You will see they were the first of several bids awarded by the DHS. This FIRST number they released was 450 million (a SINGLE order) of hollow point ammunition (including .40).
DeleteThat was the first order of 4 and near HALF a billion rounds, already.”
The order was for a maximum of 450 million spread out over a five year contract (one base year and four option years). That turns out to be a maximum (I reiterate, maximum) of 90 million rounds per year. The FLETC at Glynco alone uses 16 million rounds annually on their ranges, and it is one of four FLETC facilities with practice ranges. The large majority of those rounds will end up flying through paper targets.
http://metabunk.org/threads/599-Debunked-DHS-orders-450-million-40-caliber-bullets-for-use-in-America
“why the rounds are HOLLOW point.”
As you know crusader, hollow point bullets have greater stopping power and limit collateral damage (i.e. bystanders). It is for these reasons that hollow points are, and have been for a long time, the preferred ammunition for US law enforcement
"The order was for a maximum of 450 million spread out over a five year contract (one base year and four option years). That turns out to be a maximum (I reiterate, maximum) of 90 million rounds per year. "
DeleteRead that over, Anon. 90 MILLION rounds per year. For (DHS administered - ie FEDERAL) law enforcement.
For DOMESTIC use.
"The FLETC at Glynco alone uses 16 million rounds annually on their ranges, and it is one of four FLETC facilities with practice ranges. The large majority of those rounds will end up flying through paper targets."
If that is correct - and not just a means to misappropriate funds for, let's say, 'less popular' projects - it is wonder you folks have not gone the way of the Soviets already.
You could invade a fair sized country with that many rounds, if they were not banned by convention of war.
No wonder the Germans want their gold back!
The situation is nuts.
Wars on how many fronts now?
Cutting back troops and equipment. 'Relieving' commanders in favour of far more politically minded brass.
Actual cops can't BUY the ammo they need.
A sudden surge of mass shootings by drugged up lunatics, then a massive push to ban public arms.
But, while the drama plays out, the DHS orders 450 MILLION killerrounds for the Alphabet soup crowd to shoot paper targets with?
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, unless your area code is 202, Anon.
But let's just focus here for a moment, shall we. take aim, if you like.
Hollow points are NOT target rounds.
Target/range grade rounds are considerably cheaper.
Paper targets do NOT require hollow tips.
A paper target is not designed to register the effects of a munition that exploded INSIDE the penetration zone.
There is virtually NO advantage to practising with MILLIONS of HP rounds. A few on soft/gel targets to test the rounds - sure.
But MILLIONS a year? Come on. We don't REALLY live in igloos up here, you know?!
"As you know crusader, hollow point bullets have greater stopping power and limit collateral damage (i.e. bystanders). It is for these reasons that hollow points are, and have been for a long time, the preferred ammunition for US law enforcement"
Yes. I will agree they have greater stopping power. Even more so .50 HE or AP rounds. Why not order a few hundred million of them?
Why don't we explain what 'stopping power' means in English? You know, for our civilian friends reading this blog.
'Stopping power' means the ability to instantly put an opponent out of action. That usually means 'dead', although we have much more sanitary sounding names for death in this business.
As for the casualties: No I do not agree that HP rounds cause less collateral damage.
Focused, concentrated fire reduces the injury and death of bystanders - not deadly ammunition.
Using riflemen with specific ROE, and not missiles fired from drones into crowds and weddings kills less innocents.
Waging legal wars declared by the legal powers (ie Congress in your country) against well defined enemies would greatly reduce collateral damage.
But the language itself jumps out at me. Collateral damage? Stopping power? In this context?
I would suggest, with all due respect, that 'stopping power' and 'collateral damage' are alarming words for this old soldier to hear in connection with civilian law enforcement agencies.
This is the language of war and the front is domestic.
Does that not bother you in the slightest, Anon?
As a friendly neighbour whose job is to look our for his own countrymen, I find it all quite alarming.
“Read that over, Anon. 90 MILLION rounds per year. For (DHS administered - ie FEDERAL) law enforcement.
DeleteFor DOMESTIC use. “
Initial firearms training requires well over 1 000 rounds, continuing qualification necessitates testing with several hundred rounds, not to mention time on the range for practice.
“…Homeland Security oversees more than 135,000 weapons-carrying officers. Our calculation: If those officers go through all the possible 450 million rounds at the same rate each over five years -- admittedly, an unlikely balance -- each officer will have used about 667 bullets a year. … "On its face, the type of ammunition and the amount of ammunition over a five-year period of time doesn’t sound extraordinarily excessive," Magers [a former police officer who teaches at California University of Pennsylvania] said.”
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/apr/30/chain-email/chain-email-says-homeland-security-purchasing-many/
Even defenders of the second amendment don’t think that 6 000 rounds for an individual is an excessive amount.
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2012/jul/23/how-much-6000-rounds/
“But let's just focus here for a moment, shall we. take aim, if you like.
Hollow points are NOT target rounds.
Target/range grade rounds are considerably cheaper.
Paper targets do NOT require hollow tips. “
Crusader, you are a professional. I am sure you can tell the difference on the range between normal ammunition and RHA. Law enforcement officers are professionals as well, and they can tell the difference. You practice with the weapon and ammo you use.
“As for the casualties: No I do not agree that HP rounds cause less collateral damage.
Focused, concentrated fire reduces the injury and death of bystanders - not deadly ammunition. “
I agree about the focused fire, but that is a luxury law enforcement does not usually have. HP bullets are less likely to exit their intended target and less likely to ricochet in close quarters, making them safer for bystanders.
As for waging legal wars, that is a different discussion but you will get no disagreement from me.
The conspiracy theories pushed by Jones do not make much sense. Infowar says that large orders of bullets were made in March of 2012 and would be fulfilled over the course of four years. It wasn't even clear at the time who would be the president of the country when the orders would be delivered. It could be Obama or it could be Romney.
ReplyDeleteIn order to make sense of it, you would have to assume that the president is a puppet of some behind-the-curtain rulers.
Hoo
"In order to make sense of it, you would have to assume that the president is a puppet of some behind-the-curtain rulers. "
DeleteI would think that is obvious, Hoo.
Obamney 2012 was a joke. Electronic votes?
Election called before the West or Hawaii even CLOSE?
Like an Orwellian WWE experience.
No need for a curtain, thought.
Not any more, at any rate.
OMG! A crazy person has stolen Crusaders’ identity!
Delete-KW
crusadeREX: the 2012 election wasn't stolen. Obama just won because this country is screwed up and we like the crap sandwich he's serving us. We don't even care that he's thrown checks and balances overboard to pursue his agenda.
DeleteThe reason the election was called before the West Coast and Hawaii were even closed is because they were never really in doubt.
It might be comforting to think that Obama won by chicanery, but it isn't true. The truth is that we're a different America, and not a better one.
Ben
Ben,
DeleteSadly, I agree. We are a different country, and not a better one. That's why O won.
Ben,
DeleteIt was an Orwellian jaw dropper.
I am not suggesting it was stolen.
I am suggesting the election is nothing more than theatrics and has been increasingly so for generations.
The awareness and intellectual independence of the American public has been stolen.
Folks seem to exist in a hypnotic trance of TV, staged sports events, and sever gadgetry addictions.
The elections? What elections?
At this point it is pretty much ALL show.
It doesn't matter which celebrity candidate wins in the polls, the same oligarchs hold the power. Your political choice is not between milk, water, or wine.
Your choice is coke or pepsi.
The sooner you folks get that, the sooner you can take your country back.
You need to break the false dichotomy that is the so called 'two party' system. Maybe dust off that old thing under the glass display. I think you folks used to call it your constitution.
Try backing that old thing up instead of the whole donkeys and elephants, blue and red, go team go cheerleader thing....
There is nothing comforting in these thoughts. Having a super power imploding next door is not a comforting thought.
I sincerely hope I am completely wrong. But I grow more convinced of the situation each time I turn on the TV or look up the news online.
Ben,
DeleteHaving just read my own comment, post Tea - I noticed how imprecise and barely coherent it/I was. I have been working far too long and late. I did not mean to ramble.
Mea culpa.
Now armed with a brew, Allow me to clarify here:
I do not see the Obama election win in the 2012 cycle as anything other than a fascinating theatre. A kind of ratings It was like a tacky reality TV program we could entitled 'The Lesser Evil'(hosted by Ron Jeremy?).
I believe this surreal situation is not the 'natural' state for Americans; rather that cynical elements who benefits greatly from the 'taming' of America (and Western in general) have incrementally engineered the system and it's finances to the point of control. You know who some of them are, I am sure.
The guys who devalue currency to get rich and then move to hostile economic blocs - but still run the Western Exchanges biggest houses.
The political-economic, ascending super power who shamelessly allows your president to be labelled 'The Monkey Man' in their state run media. Monkey's being tamed pets or livestock in that part of the world.
The hordes of starved madmen who think their leader is a god, and so hate God, and hence hate you.
The guys who think God hates you, and have billions in oil and drug money to try to prove it in the best way they know how.
All those guys.
We used to call them enemies.
I am not so sure what word is used any more in political or civilian circles.
It comes down to this: In this last election, I really don't think it mattered in the long term who won. The candidates seemed almost identical to me - at least on the core issues.
But more importantly they are/were both beholden to the same creditors and backers.
Both bought and paid for by the same or identical but opposing power circles. I did prefer the message the Romney campaign was pushing over the Obama message... but I would not have wanted to choose either.
I used the term Orwellian previously, but I think Kafka's ghost could use rousing here. There is a hopeless kind of surrealism about all this, after all.
@cREX: From where I sit, you're not crazy; you're dead on the money. I've seen what you see going on in my country since I started following politics in my teens. It seems plain as day to me, but that doesn't mean that I (and you) are not mistaken anyway.
DeleteWhat also seems plain as day to me (but could also be mistaken) is that the way to take the country back from the oligarchs is twofold:
1. Unite: Most people share most of the same interests. The false dichotomies of liberal-and-conservative/democrat-and-republican/pepsi-and-coke are serving someone's interest, but that interest is not yours and mine. There may be a good time for reds and blues to fight over controversial issues once we've set our larger house in order, but the American public should focus on shared interests and the common good in this time of crisis.
2. Innovate: We're not going to beat the oligarchs at their own game. We need to change the rules.
At any rate, you're dead on about Bush and Obama (and all the other recent "candidates") being practically indistinguishable in terms of policy where it matters, and where most Americans would ordinarily object if they weren't so busy following the party line: wars of aggression, extrajudicial assassination, surveillance, and ruining the economy and the currency.
-JH
JH,
DeleteThanks.
It's nice to know I am not the only nut in the nut farm :P
I have spent years in active service. I am career military. An officer in our Military Intelligence services.
I have based my opinions on this subject in part due to that trained awareness, and in part on my own civilian education (history, post grad).
I could not agree on your two points more, JH.
The false red/blue dichotomy (a Hegelian masterpiece) must be broken; and that can only be done by a unifying political force. In my own estimation the best source for that unification would be the founding documents of the nation (ie Constitution and Bill of Rights). The reason I see this as a focal point is that the elites ATTACK those documents integrity at every opportunity. They see them as a weakness, and we should exploit any such weakness as free people.
Innovation, I agree, is also key. The oligarchs have a system in place that works like an economic steel trap. Those in opposition to the power elites need to think outside that box.
There also needs to be meaningful action taken.
Lines drawn in the sand - by the PEOPLE. The people cannot allow the ruling classes to dictate when/how these social confrontations take place (ie the latest gun grabs), but instead must instigate them.
One suggestion on action would be to take back your individual state governments (at the polls), and set a mandate for the federal government to reform in meaningful ways (congressional/senate accountability and term limits, paper ballots and HAND COUNTS for polls, reinstate Posse Comitatus, remove the NDAA etc etc).
If they refuse then the feds should understand they will face a massive, multi state movement to secede - a movement backed by state senates and governors.
This movement should have, at it's heart, the desire to reform into a new Union more suited to the ideals of the founders and of living Americans today.
CNTD
DeleteThat type of action would, of course, rely on a population that is not entirely apathetic or completely distracted.
It would mean turning off 'family guy' or skipping 'game day' and getting active.
Can that be done at this point?
That is the big question.
Mr Obama sure found a way to get the people out there, and Mr Paul came close in his own (more honest - no phones) way.
Perhaps modifications of these tactics may work to mobilize a voting block (state to state) to the point where the 10A could be used in a kind of tide of protests to federal law.
An example with a popular issue: Marijuana.
Instead of the citizens of all the states all arguing about whether pot should be FEDERALLY legal or not, how about redirecting that concern into a movement that will allow the STATES to decide (via their electorate) whether pot, prostitution, gay 'marriage', gambling,etc should be legal in their territory?
Conservative states will, for the most part, continue a ban; and liberal and libertarian states would legalize and tax it.
We would then SEE which model works best and for WHOM.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteI am sorry I have to reply down here. But it seems the nested comments below yours are disabled.
So I will respond here.
"Crusader, you are a professional. I am sure you can tell the difference on the range between normal ammunition and RHA. "
Sure.
"Law enforcement officers are professionals as well,"
Law enforcement is not DHS. The police are not run by DHS (yet). The FEDERAL agencies are DHS.
I resent the comparison between these operatives and military or police personnel.
"...and they can tell the difference."
If they can tell the difference and compensate, then there is no need for half a billion HP rounds to wasted on paper targets.
"I agree about the focused fire, but that is a luxury law enforcement does not usually have."
It is not a luxury, it is a tactic. You either implement it or not.
"HP bullets are less likely to exit their intended target and less likely to ricochet in close quarters, making them safer for bystanders."
The chances of a missed round inflicting fatal damage on a bystander is exponentially increased by the use of HP rounds. A ricochet from an FMJ round may kill, but will most likely wound. A missed HP round will most likely kill (or at least maim) whom ever it hits.
"As for waging legal wars, that is a different discussion but you will get no disagreement from me."
Well, at least we hold that common ground.