Hitler was a very mixed up dude. National Socialism was a very mixed up ideology. Evidence comes from both sides. The church's hands aren't clean, that's true.
I had never heard that he outlaws atheists and Darwinism. Can you tell me your source on this?
Hitler's Catholicism is pretty suspect. He was baptized as a Catholic when he was a child, just like nearly all Austrians. He had no choice in this matter. According to Wikipedia, he was confirmed unwillingly. Confirming people unwillingly is stupid and defeats the purpose of confirmation, which is to demonstrate a personal acceptance of the faith.
The church doesn't have to excommunicate people who leave on their own.
If I had a dime for all the people I've met who, when asked what their religion is, will say, "Well, I was baptized Catholic, but..." My cousins, for example. They got a little holy water on their heads when they were six months old, but they aren't Catholic in any meaningful sense.
I don't know who told you that Hitler made being Christian a baseline requirement for not being persecuted. Hitler was more of a racialist. He hated Jews among others, even Jewish converts to Christianity. So you could be a devout Christian, but if you happened to have Jewish blood, that was enough to get you thrown into the concentration camps. Faith didn't matter, race did.
It's very interesting that we're having this conversation. I'm just finishing up an audiobook called >>Hunting Eichmann<< by Neal Bascomb. I've learned a few things. Yes, they seem paradoxical on their face, but the world is filled paradoxes.
-An Austrian Catholic bishop in Italy helped get Eichmann out of Europe. He was a convinced Nazi. Shame on him for it.
-This same Catholic bishop arranged for a series of monasteries to be used as safe houses along the route to Genoa, where he was to catch his ship to South America. Priests at all of these monasteries knew they were sheltering Eichmann and they thought it was fine. Shame on them for it.
-Eichmann was accepted into Argentina by Juan Peron, a man with views as paradoxical as the Nazis. He was however Catholic, or at least he was until he was excommunicated. Shame on him for accepting Eichmann.
-Eichmann married his wife Vera in a Catholic ceremony, but only because she insisted on it. She was Catholic, he was not. His groomsmen were all SS officers and they chastised him for his affection for organized religion. They didn't want to participate in the religious ceremony.
-Throughout their marriage, Eichmann admonished Vera for praying and reading her Bible. Vera later read about her husband's crimes in the newspaper and asked him if they were true. He said they were all baseless slander, and she believed him. She was very naive to believe him, but I think many wives would do the same thing upon learning such things about their husbands.
-When Eichmann was abducted to Jerusalem, he was visited in prison by Canadian pastor William Lovell Hull who attempted to save his soul. Eichmann was unwilling. He said that he believed in a higher power, but not organized religion. He said that he believed that the higher power was manifested in all things, all around us, not in a deity. He said that he didn't need salvation because he had done nothing wrong and that he didn't believe in hell. He named Nietzsche and Kant as his most important influences. The pastor convinced him to start reading the Bible, but he refused to touch the Old Testament because they were just >>Jewish fables.<< I found a partial article about Pastor William Lovell Hull. Most of it is behind a paywall, but you may be interested in this sentence: >>Pastor Hull then begins another session of trying to bring Adolf Eichmann back to the Christian faith he left in 1937.<<
So, why wasn't Eichmann persecuted and thrown into a concentration camp? He wasn't a Christian after 1937 and thus didn't meet the >>the baseline requirement for not being persecuted.<<
I think you get most of your information from weird atheist bulletin boards.
Hitler was a very mixed up dude. National Socialism was a very mixed up ideology. Evidence comes from both sides. The church's hands aren't clean, that's true.
ReplyDeleteI had never heard that he outlaws atheists and Darwinism. Can you tell me your source on this?
Hitler's Catholicism is pretty suspect. He was baptized as a Catholic when he was a child, just like nearly all Austrians. He had no choice in this matter. According to Wikipedia, he was confirmed unwillingly. Confirming people unwillingly is stupid and defeats the purpose of confirmation, which is to demonstrate a personal acceptance of the faith.
The church doesn't have to excommunicate people who leave on their own.
If I had a dime for all the people I've met who, when asked what their religion is, will say, "Well, I was baptized Catholic, but..." My cousins, for example. They got a little holy water on their heads when they were six months old, but they aren't Catholic in any meaningful sense.
JQ
Sorry, that should say outlawed, not outlaws.
ReplyDeleteJQ
That's like insisting that Catholics who massacred Huguenots on St. Bartholomew's Day weren't Christians.
ReplyDeleteYou're expecting Egnor to be rational. He's not. You can't argue with a lunatic.
ReplyDeleteI don't know who told you that Hitler made being Christian a baseline requirement for not being persecuted. Hitler was more of a racialist. He hated Jews among others, even Jewish converts to Christianity. So you could be a devout Christian, but if you happened to have Jewish blood, that was enough to get you thrown into the concentration camps. Faith didn't matter, race did.
ReplyDeleteIt's very interesting that we're having this conversation. I'm just finishing up an audiobook called >>Hunting Eichmann<< by Neal Bascomb. I've learned a few things. Yes, they seem paradoxical on their face, but the world is filled paradoxes.
-An Austrian Catholic bishop in Italy helped get Eichmann out of Europe. He was a convinced Nazi. Shame on him for it.
-This same Catholic bishop arranged for a series of monasteries to be used as safe houses along the route to Genoa, where he was to catch his ship to South America. Priests at all of these monasteries knew they were sheltering Eichmann and they thought it was fine. Shame on them for it.
-Eichmann was accepted into Argentina by Juan Peron, a man with views as paradoxical as the Nazis. He was however Catholic, or at least he was until he was excommunicated. Shame on him for accepting Eichmann.
-Eichmann married his wife Vera in a Catholic ceremony, but only because she insisted on it. She was Catholic, he was not. His groomsmen were all SS officers and they chastised him for his affection for organized religion. They didn't want to participate in the religious ceremony.
-Throughout their marriage, Eichmann admonished Vera for praying and reading her Bible. Vera later read about her husband's crimes in the newspaper and asked him if they were true. He said they were all baseless slander, and she believed him. She was very naive to believe him, but I think many wives would do the same thing upon learning such things about their husbands.
-When Eichmann was abducted to Jerusalem, he was visited in prison by Canadian pastor William Lovell Hull who attempted to save his soul. Eichmann was unwilling. He said that he believed in a higher power, but not organized religion. He said that he believed that the higher power was manifested in all things, all around us, not in a deity. He said that he didn't need salvation because he had done nothing wrong and that he didn't believe in hell. He named Nietzsche and Kant as his most important influences. The pastor convinced him to start reading the Bible, but he refused to touch the Old Testament because they were just >>Jewish fables.<< I found a partial article about Pastor William Lovell Hull. Most of it is behind a paywall, but you may be interested in this sentence: >>Pastor Hull then begins another session of trying to bring Adolf Eichmann back to the Christian faith he left in 1937.<<
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,896195,00.html#ixzz2A6WwvUhm
So, why wasn't Eichmann persecuted and thrown into a concentration camp? He wasn't a Christian after 1937 and thus didn't meet the >>the baseline requirement for not being persecuted.<<
I think you get most of your information from weird atheist bulletin boards.
JQ
You are insane, mregnor. You are completely nuts. How did you manage to escape from your padded cell?
ReplyDeleteThe founder of the German National Socialists hated socialism?
ReplyDeleteHeh.
Nice spelling of Adolf*. Also he was a devout Catholic and said several times that Jesus was his inspiration.
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm sure Anton Drexler was a fan. Hitler however was not.
ReplyDelete