Tuesday, September 18, 2012

'Aren't you doing babies a favor by aborting them?'

In a video charmingly titled "Atheist bitchslap", a young woman makes atheist talking points at a discussion about the existence of heaven.

Her points, with my reply:

'If heaven exists, and aborted babies are in heaven, then people who abort babies are doing the babies a favor'.

Her argument is no more rational than the assertion 'suffering exists, and aborted babies don't suffer once they're aborted, so aborting them does them a favor'.

The idiot argument can be applied to any metaphysic, secular or Christian.

Where it fails is revealed by the Principle of Double-Effect, which is a traditional principle of Christian morality. The PDE states that an act that has some bad consequences is ultimately good if and only if it meets all of the following four criteria:

1) The intent is good.
2) The bad is not intended.
3) The good is not a consequence of the bad. That is, the bad is not the means by which the good is accomplished.
4) The magnitude of the good is substantially greater than the magnitude of the bad.

Killing a baby to send him to heaven is an explicit violation of the second and third criteria of the PDE. The baby's death is intended, and the good-- going to heaven-- is a direct consequence of the bad-- killing him.

By ancient Christian morality, aborting a baby, even to send that baby to heaven, is intrinsically evil.

But if the atheist young lady were smart enough to understand the PDE, she wouldn't be an atheist.

"Faith by definition is believing in things without evidence"

 No. That is not the definition of faith.

Faith is not credulity. Faith is fidelity. Faith is our decision to act consistently in accordance with the  conclusions we draw from incomplete evidence. Faith is not belief in things without evidence. Faith is diligence in following truth as we know it. Fidelity to the belief that atheism is true is no less faith than is fidelity to the belief that Christianity is true. Faith is the decision to weigh the logical, empirical, emotional, and intuitive evidence and to act in accordance with our best understanding of truth.

The truth is that we all lack conclusive evidence, in the sense of empirical proof of ultimate metaphysical reality.  We all believe things without conclusive evidence, atheists and scientists no less than theologians. We have no other choice but to rely on an incomplete understanding of the truth. All of us-- atheist and Christian alike, see through a glass darkly.

Faith is the firm decision to follow the evidence where it leads, even though we don't always like where it leads because it thwarts some of our desires.

Fidelity and diligence are what Christians mean by faith.  But Christian faith does entail an aspect of faith not present in atheist faith. For Christians the truth is a Person. We have faith in Someone, not just in something.

We love and obey Christ, because we have come to understand Him in our limited way, and we mean to follow Him.

Faith is fidelity to truth, as we understand it Him. 


  1. Faith is fidelity to truth

    Ah! So that explains why you lie over and over and over again on this blog, and when your lies are exposed, you say nothing.

    Whenever you hear Egnor bleating about "truth", check your wallet.

  2. If aborted babies go to heaven you are indeed doing them a favor. If a woman has ten abortions she’s sending ten people to heaven to dwell forever at the feet of our lord and savior. Of course she’ll suffer eternal damnation, but it’s a small price to pay to guaranty all your children make it to heaven. It’s hard to imagine a more noble and loving sacrifice. Jesus suffering a day or two to save mankind is nothing compared to the sacrifice of the loving abortion mother.

    Heaven and hell are silly childish notions. The creatures in heaven are not and can not be the same people they where in life because they would have to be altered to comport themselves for an eternity in paradise. You won’t go to heaven, a modified facsimile with your memories will. Similarly, how, after 10 or 10,000 years of torture, can the sufferer in hell bear any meaningful relationship to the original person? Unless hell is an endless loop of your first day, the tortured lumps of pure misery can only exist for the amusement of the God who sent them there.


  3. "If aborted babies go to heaven you are indeed doing them a favor."

    That may be true. But you are still committing murder.

    1. @KW:

      "Heaven and hell are silly childish notions."

      The existence or non-existence of heaven and hell is of course independent of your opinion as to whether they're silly.

      And atheists have a very real hell. It is everyday life in any nation unfortunate to be governed by State Atheism.

      You atheists naturalize hell, and make it quite tangible in this life.

    2. “The existence or non-existence of heaven and hell is of course independent of your opinion as to whether they're silly.”

      The same can be said for Never Never Land, and OZ.


    3. @KW:

      Yea. And Shit Happened explains the universe.

      And Stuff Changed and Survivors Survived explains life.

      Atheism is a bastion of reason.

    4. Poor Egnor, who still doesn't understand basic physics and biology. But still, it's good for your students and patients for your ignorance to be exposed so publicly.

  4. Hell is listening to KW babble on incoherently.

    The Torch

  5. So, are you going to want to have sex in heaven, or will you be reincarnated as a totally non sexual being incapable of feeling lust? Is that you?

    How about your feelings for those who didn’t make it? Are you going to be a smiling zombie content with the fact that some fine good kind people, perhaps some you love, are suffering eternal torture? How much of your mind will have to be altered to make that happen, or are you all so selfish that you wouldn’t feel a sense of loss or be bothered by the injustice?

    Whatever those creatures in heaven are, they’re not human.


  6. @KW:

    Eternity is a choice. I regret bad choices, but I respect freedom to make them.